Ben and Jennifer dig into the Zero Carb movement, an extreme form of Keto that’s really trending these days.  Proponents eat only animal products and tout many benefits, but is it safe?  What about scurvy? What about US RDA guidelines? Can zero-carbers safely ignore the daily minimum fiber requirements? Are they just doing it to annoy vegans?  Tune in and find out!

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Show notes:



Karen update 1:23
Zero carb 2:20
Ins and outs zero carb 2:20
Negatives of zero carb 16:50
Skurvy? 34:00
Glutathyone 38:30
Vitamin C 42:00
Zero carb might not kill you but is it optimal? 44:00
Social constraints with zero carb/sustainablity 50:00
Why do zero carb? 44:00
Electrolyte recommendations 57:50
Alternative to No Salt 1:02:00
Keto Flu Fix 1:04:00


00:00 this podcast was brought to you by
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00:14 [Music]
00:21 well hello and welcome to another
00:24 edition of the impulsive Guido casts I’m
00:26 your host Ben McDonald today’s episode
00:29 is on meat and rocks we’re gonna be
00:31 discussing as zero carb diets and
00:34 getting into electrolytes a little bit
00:35 to help me haul these rocks up the hill
00:38 I’ve invited Sisyphus to join us
00:40 Sisyphus how are you doing I’m not sure
00:42 my name is but I’m great
00:44 get pushing Sisyphus no Jennifer thank
00:48 you Oh Jennifer hey hey not Karen what
00:51 are you doing I am currently sipping
00:55 some herbal mint tea which is fabulous
00:57 and uh looking out the window thinking
01:01 that it’s January and it’s a good time
01:03 to talk about meat because meat makes me
01:05 happy so I did want to note for a
01:09 regular listeners fact Karen will be
01:10 joining us eventually she’s currently in
01:13 an igloo that doesn’t have internet
01:15 access because she’s Canadian and it’s
01:17 really really cold as soon as her
01:21 schooling is done she’s in the middle of
01:23 like final exams or something she
01:26 doesn’t have time to be yapping on the
01:27 podcast but hopefully that’ll be done in
01:30 the next week or so and she’ll be
01:32 joining us and have shiny credentials so
01:36 very soon let’s hope so
01:38 I mean there’s no guarantee okay we’ll
01:41 see you know you have to pass that’s
01:44 part of the thing you can’t just attend
01:46 to school and receive credentials you
01:48 have to physically pass so here’s hoping
01:52 for her here she’ll be back with us so
01:55 in the meantime more air time for me
01:57 Rosa what do and I get to have some some
02:00 fun hangout podcast time with you
02:02 nice well we thought today’s episode
02:07 should talk about a couple of
02:09 interesting topics certainly one that’s
02:12 contra
02:13 Hershel and seems to be gathering a
02:16 little bit of popularity is this zero
02:18 carb movement the no vegetables all meat
02:22 model of nutrition Jennifer have you
02:25 seen this in your circles oh absolutely
02:27 it’s really gaining steam it’s that
02:30 people are like yeah you know I just eat
02:32 meat for every meal me meat meat meat I
02:35 think maybe it’s a backlash against
02:37 veganism I mean certainly if you’re
02:40 gonna go extreme that would be the other
02:43 direction but they claim all kinds of
02:49 miraculous things like they say you know
02:52 sure keto was good right because you’re
02:54 keeping your carbs under 20 so why not
02:56 take it all the way baby
02:58 zero zero carb and they say once you go
03:02 zero carb you have more energy you you
03:05 lose weight you lose the cravings for
03:08 other sorts of food you don’t have to
03:12 regulate how much you you eat because it
03:15 naturally happens your skin is up your
03:18 hair gets thicker and your erectile
03:21 dysfunction disappears well I mean who
03:23 can argue with any of those things so it
03:29 sounds great why don’t why don’t I do it
03:31 I’m wondering well I have some concerns
03:36 I have some unanswered questions and I
03:42 have to play devil’s advocate a little
03:44 bit just to be honest okay none of this
03:48 stuff is well studied Jennifer it’s
03:51 expensive yeah how expensive it is to
03:54 take a randomized control trial and buy
03:57 them rib eyes for six months what about
04:01 just ground beef well that’s that’s the
04:03 thing I mean you really could do it with
04:05 ground beef but even then I mean it’s
04:07 still you’re talking about most people
04:09 are gonna eat about two pounds a day so
04:11 you figure four bucks for the the low
04:13 grade of ground beef that’s gonna be $8
04:18 a day times you know however many
04:20 participants it starts add up pretty
04:23 quick
04:24 maybe the participants would be so happy
04:27 to be eating the beef that they would
04:29 pay to be in the study it could be I
04:33 don’t know all I can tell you is if you
04:35 go look for literature on this stuff
04:37 none of it exists it’s not something
04:39 that’s studied nobody knows anything
04:41 about it most of the claims are from
04:44 proponents and practitioners on both
04:47 sides of the aisle
04:48 now it’s particularly interesting that a
04:51 lot of the claims that Jennifer referred
04:53 to are made in contrast to a
04:57 carbohydrate a standard diet you would
05:00 not see folks making those claims as
05:05 contrasted to a ketogenic diet even
05:09 something that’s nutrient dense I beg to
05:12 differ because these are people that are
05:14 saying that they were on keto but they
05:16 weren’t they weren’t losing weight they
05:19 were still struggling and they even
05:22 people with diabetes they were on keto
05:24 but they weren’t able to control their
05:25 blood glucose but they went zero carb
05:28 and their glucose cleared up and they
05:30 lost weight and that got out of the
05:31 stall and so they had to they improved
05:36 their health from keto going to zero
05:38 carb
05:38 I have a number of scientifically based
05:43 complaints about that I want to hear
05:46 this here’s the thing the thing is
05:52 ribeye is awesome so you got to convince
05:53 me this is not gonna work we so let’s
05:58 back up ad impulsive keto we have a
06:01 point of view that adequate protein is
06:05 all that is required for most people
06:09 that’s 30 to 45 grams twice maybe three
06:12 times a day if you’re relatively active
06:17 if you’re you know doing physique
06:19 training bodybuilding that kind of stuff
06:21 maybe even a little bit more than that
06:23 but for most people 160 grams a day but
06:27 kind of be the top end of all you would
06:30 ever need in order to maintain and
06:35 optimize lean muscle mass
06:37 skeletal tissue if you recall we’ve
06:42 talked in the past about MPs the loosing
06:44 pulse and that when you eat protein that
06:48 releases insulin and that also triggers
06:51 an event where your skeletal muscle will
06:55 be rebuilt and that we call that the MPs
06:58 cycle the muscle protein synthesis where
07:01 it builds and repairs it’s triggered by
07:03 the leucine amino acid that’s one of the
07:05 many amino acids inside of protein when
07:08 we talk about protein it’s a bunch of
07:09 different chemicals all lumped together
07:13 those chemicals have kind of a finite
07:20 amount that they can be utilized by the
07:23 body for instance the MPs pulse if you
07:27 we can actually measure MPs if I give
07:30 you one gram of leucine MPs will be I’m
07:35 making up an arbitrary scale here I’ll
07:37 have the data in front of me let’s say
07:39 20 ok give you two grams it goes to 40 I
07:44 give you three grams it goes to 50 I
07:47 give you four grams it goes to 52 and
07:52 continues to diminish from there give
07:54 you five grams it goes to 53 like it’s
07:57 it’s good it’s kind of got a cap on
08:00 maximum MPs for a given pulse it’s
08:03 because your stomach is only so big and
08:05 you can only eat so much caribou and
08:08 that’s kind of how it works
08:10 you know you designed to be able to eat
08:12 a certain amount of a certain volume and
08:15 that amount of meat is you know
08:18 relatively restricted to a you know if
08:22 you think about it a human stomachs
08:23 about the size of a two-liter bottle how
08:27 much food can you put in there and
08:29 especially in raw form
08:32 you know you masticate up meat how much
08:35 meat could you feed in a two-liter
08:37 bottle when it’s coming right off the
08:39 caribou I just finished watching my
08:42 600-pound life so we shouldn’t talk
08:43 about that well that’s a good point some
08:48 people more those I see some people have
08:50 fo get to chow
08:51 make some damage mm-hmm but in general
08:55 your your body’s kind of evolved to deal
08:58 with yeah 30 45 grams at a time there’s
09:02 some other downstream chemical stuff
09:04 like you the enzymes that allow protein
09:07 to be absorbed you release a certain
09:09 amount of enzymes that’s kind of it’s
09:12 like a little squirt of digestive juice
09:14 wait that’s a finite supply you don’t
09:16 make those infinitely and if you don’t
09:19 provide sufficient enzymes then the back
09:22 teeth are the protein will just stay in
09:24 the colon none digest it and it will
09:26 petrify and you know give you you know a
09:29 waste product of rotten protein well
09:34 isn’t that kind of okay then because
09:37 like doesn’t that imply that if I eat a
09:39 lot of protein the excess is just I poop
09:42 it out it’s harmless good to correct
09:44 anybody else has sophisticated
09:46 mechanisms for dealing with excess amino
09:48 acids and excess protein nutrient intake
09:52 let’s say you ate 45 grams of protein
09:56 but had six meals a day your body is
09:58 very well adapted to dispose of that
10:03 extra protein wildy decompose into what
10:08 is essentially a nitrogen load which
10:11 turns into a safe form of ammonia which
10:14 is sequestered as uric acid which is
10:17 then peed out okay well that all sounds
10:21 very stinky but I’m just saying if I’m
10:22 like a chronic overeater and I really
10:26 want to overeat in a way that’s going to
10:28 be the best possible way for my health
10:31 can I just tuck into a two-pound steak
10:35 and my body will just pass the excess
10:37 out without damage some what if you told
10:44 me that you were going to have a splurge
10:46 night I would rather you go to and
10:51 all-you-can-eat meat buffet then an
10:53 all-you-can-eat doughnut shop okay
10:59 but it’s still it’s not great though
11:01 right I mean I’m still gonna I could
11:03 overeat on meat right
11:05 you could but to what consequence and
11:08 that’s kind of the argument that these
11:10 folks have if protein is relatively
11:14 calorie a if you think about it like
11:18 like a pad of butter it’s pretty small
11:21 right but it has 100 calories in it
11:22 mm-hmm if you take that same size slice
11:25 of meat it’s like what it’s gonna be
11:28 what 55 calories so do we less than a
11:32 half Oh even less than that because
11:34 you’re gonna you know you have like a
11:35 water so like if you’re looking at
11:37 something like tuna sashimi right you
11:39 know much less sure absolutely
11:42 yeah gram for gram you know a gram of
11:46 fat as 9 calories a gram of proteins
11:49 about 4 and because of that from a
11:53 volumetric standpoint it is very
11:55 difficult to get into a lot of trouble
11:57 eating meat especially leaner meat it’s
12:00 you know if you’re tucking into a real
12:02 greasy ribeye or 70/30 ground beef you
12:04 can do some calorie damage okay but like
12:08 if I’m just sitting there with a
12:10 16-ounce sushi me tuna steak I’m good to
12:14 go
12:15 yeah I mean I certainly I’m not worried
12:19 about you doing that all right good and
12:25 that’s back on the menu boys well this
12:28 is the interesting argument if in fact
12:32 it’s difficult to get into trouble by
12:34 eating too much meat you know just like
12:35 we were talking about it’s difficult to
12:37 get into trouble eating too much to rob
12:38 a baked potato plain baked potato right
12:41 you can’t get into trouble with that
12:43 because you wouldn’t over eat it it’s
12:45 kind of the same way with hamburger if I
12:47 gave you a five-gallon bucket a
12:48 hamburger and said have all you want
12:50 every day you really wouldn’t get into
12:52 trouble from a calorie standpoint you
12:56 know that I guess there’s this group
12:58 also the the bacon experiment where they
13:00 tell people eat a pound and a half of
13:02 bacon every day and nothing else for a
13:05 month I don’t know exactly you know I’d
13:08 have to do some reckon ordering to
13:11 figure out how many calories is in bacon
13:13 that sounds like a lot of calories to me
13:15 because the fat content of bacon is you
13:17 know the at least fit
13:19 % so you meeting half a pound of fat
13:21 which gotta be a lot of calories
13:24 but yes yeah you know to that and it’s
13:27 it’s unlikely that you would be getting
13:31 a ton of it would probably less than
13:33 2,000 calories I would imagine kind of I
13:36 have no idea how much is in a pound of
13:38 bacon but I would I would assume an
13:40 entire pound of Bacon’s less in 2,000
13:43 calories I would think so especially
13:44 after you’ve cooked it and you know the
13:46 grease is dripped off and stuff
13:47 depending on how you cook it
13:48 I’m sure yeah II bake it and really
13:50 render that fat down a little bit and
13:52 yeah
13:52 drain it off real good sure but that you
13:55 know you then you’re taking a fatty meat
13:56 and trying to lean it out a little bit
13:58 same thing is why I boil my chicken
14:00 wings and stuff like that to Train
14:01 reduced the fat load a little bit okay
14:04 all right so it sounds like this is the
14:06 way to go so point being this process of
14:12 eating mostly protein is extremely
14:16 satisfying your seat satiety is what
14:20 we’re talking about not just
14:21 satisfaction but really that that
14:23 feeling of fullness and I’m not hungry
14:26 for more I you know I’m full I’m
14:28 satisfied and my hunger is diminished
14:30 and will remain diminished for a period
14:32 of time cool hey that’s certainly a
14:36 benefit to protein and a great reason
14:39 why we have concerns when people are
14:42 doing vegetarian versions of keto
14:45 because you your body has specific
14:49 satiety pathways that are triggered only
14:52 by rotating and certainly triggered best
14:55 by protein I have to say nothing really
14:59 satisfies me like a good a good rib I
15:02 realize are the best yeah absolutely
15:05 without question for us we do a lot of
15:08 Flatiron steaks we do New York strips we
15:10 we don’t do a lot of rib eyes but we do
15:14 do a lot of steak and steak solves lots
15:18 of problems alright so how about I just
15:25 eat nothing but steak well so let’s talk
15:29 about what’s good about that you’re
15:32 gonna have plenty
15:33 protein coming in and as long as you’re
15:36 spacing out the meals you know certainly
15:37 we have a point of view at impulsive
15:39 Kido they you should be eating at least
15:42 two meals a day for the most part you
15:43 know folks that are doing different
15:44 fasting models have some strategies are
15:47 a little different but but by and large
15:49 you know were two meals a day skipping
15:52 breakfast is the the basic blueprint
15:54 right right so that gives you two pulses
15:57 a day and if your dude
15:59 45 grams each time it’s giving you about
16:02 90 grams of protein that’s enough for a
16:04 relatively sedentary dude and we Jack
16:08 that up to anywhere from 120 to 160 for
16:10 someone he’s active by adding an
16:12 additional meal I’m gonna space about
16:14 three hours apart so if you were doing
16:16 that with nothing but protein you would
16:19 probably have strong bones strong
16:22 muscles and a shiny coat just like my
16:26 kids now here’s where things get a
16:31 little bit theoretical and also a little
16:36 bit confusing we’ve talked in the past
16:39 about gut health and if you’re listening
16:41 to this episode and haven’t listened to
16:43 the gut health episode check that out
16:46 next because we go into a much greater
16:48 detail on this stuff I’m not gonna
16:50 repeat myself too much okay but episode
16:53 was mind-blowing really really
16:55 enlightening for me
16:56 definitely check it out I really think
16:59 that it’s more I mean obviously it’s the
17:01 foundation of the nutritional model that
17:03 Karen and I wrote we believed that gut
17:05 health is a huge component to health and
17:08 you know I I have some biological
17:11 evidence that I would argue in favor
17:14 that I’ve seen tons of research on it
17:17 too so I think you’re on solid ground
17:18 for sure
17:19 well am i because the people who are
17:22 advocating zero carb do not have good
17:25 gut health they practically have no gut
17:28 health at all if you don’t they would
17:31 disagree I’ve seen them arguing this
17:33 okay they say that their gut adapted to
17:35 eating meats and they got rid of the
17:37 stuff they didn’t need who cares well
17:39 okay so guess what we get to do we let’s
17:42 talk about poop okay if you were to go
17:46 on an
17:47 me diet for 3 months you essentially
17:51 have rabbit pellets for poop your waist
17:56 will go down to almost nothing like you
17:59 stunningly small amounts of material is
18:06 that bad I mean I don’t know who knows
18:09 that this is these this is the
18:12 unknowable mystery of this situation you
18:18 have this 30 foot long
18:20 intestine that was very clearly designed
18:24 to be a fermentation chamber because if
18:28 you look at a wolf wolf doesn’t have a
18:30 30 foot long
18:31 you know pure carnivores do not have
18:34 super long small intestines ok
18:37 interesting but we don’t have three
18:39 stomachs so we’re not a cow like we’re
18:42 we’re an omnivore we’re somewhere in the
18:44 middle we were designed to eat a little
18:46 bit of this a little bit of that but the
18:49 question is is it unhealthy to forsake
18:56 that aspect of your biology there having
19:01 a decent volume of poop is what you’re
19:03 saying right there’s this fermentation
19:06 process you know we talked about how
19:08 eating fibrous stretch the fruits and
19:11 vegetables will provide metabolic
19:13 substrate for this bio sludge that lives
19:16 in your intestine and it converts that
19:18 fiber into primarily brute butyrate and
19:22 propionate and you know a couple of
19:24 things that ultimately enhance the
19:28 health and function of your epithelial
19:31 cells in your intestine you know that’s
19:34 obviously favorable to serotonin that’s
19:36 favorable to overall inflammation and
19:39 tissue health it’s not a significant
19:44 source of energy directly but it seems
19:48 to fuel this giant organ you have your
19:51 digestive system is a profoundly
19:54 critical portion of your body
19:59 and I remember from that the from the
20:03 gut health episode that the gut health
20:05 you know that the having different sorts
20:07 of good bacteria and they’re really
20:09 affected the immune system your psyche
20:11 uh all kinds of aspects of health it I
20:14 didn’t realize we’re related but after
20:17 that episode I went and did a little
20:18 digging and yeah there’s scientific
20:20 studies showing all this stuff which a
20:23 very very sound basis include definitely
20:27 yeah all kind of just didn’t realize
20:29 that it had such a profound influence on
20:31 basically everything it certainly can
20:35 but here’s the weird piece of this and
20:39 this is what you have to respect
20:41 clinical evidence Trump’s all research
20:44 right we can talk about theory all you
20:46 want but if somebody were to do this the
20:51 expectation would be that they would
20:53 feel bad and have problems and and get
20:56 scurvy and a bunch of other stuff well
20:59 yeah and the people who do do it they’re
21:00 like this is the best I’ve ever felt in
21:02 my life that’s right how do you explain
21:05 that I don’t know I don’t know that’s
21:09 why I’m wondering if I should give it a
21:11 go I I got one major major obstacle in
21:14 my way to try it which is there is no
21:15 such thing as chocolate rib eye that’s
21:18 true yes that’s a big issue
21:19 yeah and is there some sort of sliding
21:23 scale where so to be clear if you go on
21:28 an ami diet you’re pretty much in
21:30 ketosis the whole time you know you know
21:32 everybody kind of comes in and out of it
21:34 a little bit but you’re gonna be in mad
21:36 ketosis more or less mm-hmm you’d have
21:40 to be where else are you gonna get
21:42 energy you have to process the fat right
21:44 that’s right so we’re talking about a
21:46 faction a sub sect if you will of the
21:49 ketogenic tribe so these are these are
21:52 fellow ketogenic folk so this is a model
21:57 of nutrition it’s not it you know
22:01 they’re they’re still getting all of
22:03 those things that we’re talking about
22:04 you you still have the liver creating
22:07 ketones and powering the brain you’ve
22:10 got all those things happening
22:12 you know the the favorable inflammation
22:15 you know all the good stuff that comes
22:18 with being ketogenic so they’re getting
22:20 all that so you would expect them to
22:23 feel well I would and apparently even
22:26 even more so than your standard keto
22:28 work that’s certainly the claim but then
22:33 you have to wonder people who are making
22:35 that claim where were they starting from
22:39 where’s their gut health as good as they
22:42 suspected it to be did in the same way
22:46 that we talked about how good and gut
22:48 health is profoundly favorable you know
22:51 the other side is also true if you have
22:54 you know bad gut health it can
22:57 negatively impact your health you know
22:59 lots of very unfavorable ways we know I
23:03 mean there’s even syndromes for that are
23:06 you saying that if somebody is eating
23:08 like all meat and they had bad good
23:11 health the bad bacteria would have to
23:14 die cuz you’re not feeding any bacteria
23:16 so I’m sorry go on
23:18 right it’s a little let’s talk about you
23:21 go to your doctor and it’s been
23:22 determined that you have bad gut health
23:24 it will give you a special antibiotic
23:27 that pretty much stays in the intestine
23:30 and kills off everything in the tube all
23:33 the way down then we build it from the
23:36 ground up okay so there’s there’s a
23:40 syndrome is called small intestinal
23:42 bacterial overgrowth SCI Bo it’s very
23:44 common I’m not very common but certainly
23:47 does happen and it can be very painful
23:50 it causes a lot of bad problems for
23:55 folks especially folks have been on a
23:57 really bad diet carbohydrate-based well
24:01 we have a lot of people in the group who
24:03 have come to keto specifically to
24:05 address sighs oh and we suspect that
24:09 they achieve resolution because whatever
24:12 bad actor is overgrown is a carbohydrate
24:16 thriving bacteria most of them are I
24:20 guess I well who’s to say I’m an you
24:23 know there’s a gazillion different kind
24:25 to bacteria but certainly a common way
24:29 to achieve this state of bad gut health
24:32 is to eat Cheetos and weed bread okay so
24:38 zero carb would clear that out zero carb
24:41 is going to kill off most of your gut
24:45 bacteria because you’re not providing it
24:48 the metabolic substrate to thrive cool
24:53 now is that favorable to your gut health
24:58 on the long term certainly in the short
25:02 term it’s not going to kill you and if
25:04 we are to believe the claims of these
25:06 folks in many cases they feel pretty
25:09 good on it that’s what they say but you
25:15 know take a disease like celiac disease
25:17 right one of the things that can happen
25:19 is you you can become basically allergic
25:23 to wheat gluten or something like that
25:25 right right and what’ll happen is you
25:28 have this basically an autoimmune
25:29 response the inside of your intestine is
25:32 actually not flat and smooth it’s
25:36 covered with like little wrinkles I
25:38 would almost say like think like velvet
25:41 or denim or corduroy quarter is probably
25:44 good example so you know it’s got ridges
25:48 like little ripples okay those little
25:51 ridges are called villi and what will
25:54 happen is in celiac diseases villi will
25:57 actually become damaged and basically
26:00 burn off and those grooves become
26:05 flattened so you have less screws oh now
26:08 those grooves provide a very valuable
26:09 service which is they increase the
26:11 surface area of your small intestine
26:13 it’s only about 30 feet long but when
26:17 you add up the extra surface area that
26:19 the villi not provide and let’s say we
26:23 were to flatten it out it’s about the
26:24 size of a football field Wow okay which
26:27 you know if you think if you took a
26:28 30-foot long garden hose and cut it open
26:30 you know it’s you know three inches wide
26:33 and thirty feet long so you can imagine
26:36 what we’re talking about you know this
26:38 is
26:39 serious amounts of surface area for this
26:42 bacterial colony to grow
26:43 that’s tremendous a huge difference why
26:46 do you have that if you’re not going to
26:48 use it like that it seems like a big
26:51 deal well I understand people with SIBO
26:55 have terrible problems with digestion
26:57 they do they absolutely do and that’s
27:01 what I wonder is for many of these folks
27:04 who are making these claims I wonder if
27:06 they are somehow influencing bad actors
27:10 in this gut biome that they could have
27:13 achieved in other ways through like a
27:17 intestinal antibiotic or through dietary
27:20 change temporarily and now if they were
27:24 to go back to a normal diet they’d be
27:25 fine because as that actors are gone if
27:28 they reestablish good gut health they’d
27:30 be back to normal well we’ve got I would
27:32 have to think that a period of zero carb
27:35 would be healthier than taking some sort
27:38 of powerful anti biotic right I don’t
27:43 know who’s to say alright you know it
27:46 does a is that medication bring risk to
27:49 the table ah I’m not here to say that it
27:51 doesn’t but I’m not necessarily here to
27:54 say that it’s a risk that’s not worth it
27:58 or potentially you know suit spooky yeah
28:03 I mean if there’s a way to achieve a
28:05 result without an antibiotic that is not
28:07 gonna harm me that has to be better than
28:10 the operatic I don’t know I’m not here
28:12 to make that claim and in fact I’d go so
28:15 far say I don’t know that that’s true at
28:16 all
28:17 okay III think it’s an interesting point
28:20 and certainly a point of view I can you
28:25 show me evidence that one side of that
28:28 or the other is true I can certainly
28:30 show you evidence a lot of people who
28:32 have taken a given medication and come
28:34 out on the far side just fine yeah but
28:37 you know the whole overuse of
28:38 antibiotics you know they talk about you
28:41 know is an endemic problem with our
28:43 society and that we’re gonna you know
28:44 breed antibiotic resistant bacteria and
28:47 then we’re not gonna have any medication
28:49 available to us when we do need it well
28:52 and you know
28:53 one of the most common bad actors is
28:54 something called c-diff ‘silly right so
28:56 that is a one of the nastiest little
29:00 germs that can get into your gut and it
29:03 can be very very it’s a antibiotic
29:05 resistant it’s very difficult to kill
29:06 and causes profound gut problems so I
29:11 say if zero carb is helping people fix
29:14 their gut issues and that’s a that’s a
29:16 fine thing it’s difficult to argue with
29:20 I’ll give you that
29:21 I certainly if I were suffering from Sai
29:24 Bo I would be very willing to try a lot
29:28 of nonsense but is it nonsense really I
29:32 don’t and it was odd that’s the thing
29:34 that’s probably not a fair word because
29:35 I I don’t it it it certainly seems very
29:39 reasonable on the surface right no it
29:42 doesn’t it seems very unreasonable
29:44 because what about all of the stuff they
29:47 say you need a certain mineral not a
29:49 fiber you need these vitamins you know
29:52 if I if you went to any I think if you
29:54 went to any you know registered
29:55 dietitian and you said hey how about
29:57 that food pyramid I’m just eating the
30:00 meat portion right they they would
30:02 explode well they say the same thing
30:05 about you not eating carbohydrate and
30:07 you seem to do alright oh well that’s
30:09 true see that’s the problem with this
30:11 Jennifer you can’t you can’t take part
30:13 of this and not take the other half
30:15 which is they quote-unquote they say you
30:20 have to have carbohydrate as well well I
30:22 guess what you don’t your body perfectly
30:25 demand-driven creates all the glucose
30:28 you need that’s true but are you saying
30:30 I don’t need fiber and vitamins and
30:32 minerals and all that stuff it’s not
30:34 meat the zero carb folks are saying that
30:38 well but I’ve also heard that the only
30:41 way you should do zero carb is to make
30:45 sure you get lots of organ meat and skin
30:47 to make up for all the missing vitamins
30:50 it is certainly true that a number of
30:54 minerals especially but also some
30:57 vitamins are not present or present in
31:02 much lower quantities in meat than they
31:06 would be in
31:06 vegetable but here’s the thing and this
31:09 is this is the part where you really
31:12 have to take a step back and sit down
31:13 and consider the implications of this
31:17 let’s take something like vitamin C how
31:23 much vitamin C do you need in a given
31:26 day the u.s. RDA says I don’t know but
31:30 you know a certain amount yeah let’s say
31:33 it’s 300 milk is 300 okay something like
31:38 that I don’t know exactly we should
31:40 probably look that up censuses
31:41 semi-official
31:43 uh-huh Google to the rescue okay 60
31:53 milligrams a day okay all right so
31:58 here’s the thing how did they come up
32:01 with that number
32:03 they’re the u.s. RDA they’re right there
32:06 next to God I don’t know well exactly
32:10 they surveyed people to figure out what
32:16 folks were eating and then declared that
32:18 to be the regular the recommended daily
32:24 allowance
32:24 now this practice started back I think
32:27 it was World War Z the world war 1 or
32:30 World War two remember remember how I
32:32 have ranted about Ancel keys in the past
32:35 and his nonsense yeah well you ever
32:38 heard of the K ration I have the keys
32:43 ration I didn’t realize it was the keys
32:46 rash and the only reason I that was K
32:47 ration is because I play nethack well
32:50 the K ration introduced as a nutrient
32:55 density food ration that contained the
33:02 you know the minimum amount of nutrients
33:05 that you needed now I might be getting
33:07 some of these details wrong cuz I didn’t
33:09 prepare for this giving a history lesson
33:11 here you know there was like sea rations
33:14 and K rations but blah blah blah this
33:16 guy Ancel keys and a bunch of their
33:18 nutritionists of the day
33:20 that explored and did some study to try
33:24 and figure out how much of what stuff
33:26 you needed and then you know put it into
33:29 rat pellets and put it in can and gave
33:31 it to the troops because then that’s
33:32 what we needed at the time right those
33:34 are for war fighters so that’s all well
33:38 and good and that practice is largely
33:42 evolved along with science but these
33:44 recommendations are based on observation
33:48 not on empirical evidence so you’re
33:55 saying it’s kind of like the
33:57 carbohydrate recommendation it’s just a
34:00 historical that’s right if you ask them
34:03 what the RDA for carbohydrate is is like
34:05 250 milligrams or 250 grams right
34:09 something like that yeah the answer you
34:12 and I know is zero uh-huh that’s how
34:15 many carbs you need add a zero but Anna
34:19 it’s not the RDA for fiber and stuff
34:22 like that so with vitamin C what if I
34:26 don’t get 65 milligrams well who’s to
34:30 say that 65 is what you need and that’s
34:33 the part you really have to be skeptical
34:36 about is who says who and why do they
34:41 say that let me let me just be honest
34:44 with you Ben okay don’t don’t get upset
34:46 okay
34:47 all right I know there’s like we have
34:49 our impulsive Kido you know recommended
34:51 supplements and includes like a
34:53 multivitamin and you know I I’ve been
34:56 tracking my you know vitamin intake and
34:59 stuff like that
34:59 and I went through most of my life even
35:04 including today without taking
35:06 multivitamins cuz I’m like you know why
35:08 you have to take stuff you know if I
35:12 feel good why why do I need to
35:14 supplement now I get the electrolytes
35:15 okay we’ll talk about that but I get
35:17 that but the multivitamin that no
35:20 because I live my life fine I’m healthy
35:22 relatively sure but you know I don’t
35:27 looking over my chronometer log which
35:29 I’ve been doing religiously for the past
35:31 week nice I don’t get
35:34 hardly any vitamin C whoops hello am I
35:37 gonna die
35:38 what’s gonna happen well so here’s where
35:40 things get sketchy so now we take the
35:44 RDA and we go oh if you don’t get the
35:46 RDA everybody knows you’ll get scurvy
35:49 right okay this is you know the British
35:53 sailors would you know get in their
35:55 ships and sail across the sea and you
35:59 know they had to take lemons or limes
36:00 and that’s why they call them limeys
36:03 right because they bad
36:05 they knew that it they didn’t take
36:08 citrus with him they would get sick
36:09 and they would get sick for an unknown
36:12 reason but they weren’t eating an all
36:14 meat diet they’re eating carbohydrates
36:17 okay they had salt tack but then they
36:21 also salt beef you know they would take
36:24 meat and basically make beef jerky but
36:27 then then they would make this bread
36:29 that was like unleavened crackers kind
36:32 of a thing this is super hard dense
36:34 bread that’s basically waterproof and
36:36 they would bring that along too so they
36:39 were getting a lot of carbohydrate and a
36:41 lot of protein so their vitamin C
36:45 requirements were about where the RDA
36:48 sets which is you know 50 milligrams a
36:51 day 60 milligrams a day something like
36:52 that if you were to sufficiently
36:57 restrict carbohydrate your overall
37:01 glucose demand gyro it there’s a concept
37:06 called area under the curve so if we if
37:08 we were to try and measure how much
37:09 sugar you took in a day that would be
37:12 the area under the curve frame right so
37:15 your total intake of sugars and that’s
37:19 you know carbohydrate in the form of
37:22 sugars and starches influences how much
37:29 vitamin C your cells can take up and how
37:32 much vitamin C they need because a
37:36 glucose and vitamin C compete
37:40 for nutrient uptake they’re very similar
37:44 molecular ly weird so yeah I’m kind of
37:51 blown away it’s so like if I so I can
37:54 process so much fight so if I need
37:57 glucose if I’m gonna remember that that
38:00 remember from an old episode on insulin
38:03 resistance Kari and I brought up a
38:05 picture of a cell and we talked about
38:08 the glute 4 receptor and how insulin was
38:11 the signaling hormone that would open up
38:14 this receptor so that the cell would
38:16 intake glucose into the cell yeah yeah
38:23 well this is what we’re talking about
38:25 it’s competing for transport space you
38:30 know there’s only so much transportation
38:32 that can be done because there’s only so
38:34 much insulin created okay
38:36 so if you reduce the amount of glucose
38:38 that you’re eating you increase the
38:41 efficiency of the vitamin C that you
38:43 have because your body is actually
38:45 really good at recycling vitamin C yeah
38:48 and we’ve talked about it in not enough
38:52 detail we actually need to do this at
38:53 some point and do a glutathione thing
38:56 but you have this man master antioxidant
38:59 called glutathione and glutathione is
39:02 recycled and it’s recycled using vitamin
39:05 C and vitamin E and vitamin these two
39:09 vitamins so glutathione is rehabbed back
39:12 into its active clean state by vitamin C
39:15 and then vitamin C is rehabbed into its
39:19 active state by vitamin E so think of it
39:23 think about it like a two-step of
39:25 recycling right okay so your body’s
39:30 pretty good at scavenging and recycling
39:33 this vitamin C so long as there’s
39:36 sufficient substrate and there’s enough
39:38 glutathione enough vitamin E and you’re
39:41 not losing any through weird biochemical
39:44 process
39:45 okay so I don’t need vitamin C is what
39:49 you’re saying well you certainly don’t
39:51 need as much as long as I got
39:56 glutathione and vitamin E as long as
39:58 your glucose load is low enough to put
40:03 less stress on this glutathione cycle
40:07 and to compete for nutrient uptake in
40:12 the cells right this gets really
40:15 biologically into the weeds very quick I
40:17 admit yeah so let’s step back and let me
40:21 try and paint another picture of this
40:24 someone who is eating low carbs eats
40:28 less sugar sugar competes with vitamin C
40:32 to get into the cell
40:35 so some vitamin C is lost because it is
40:39 out competed by sugar so sugar eaters
40:46 need a lot of vitamin C sugar eaters
40:48 need more vitamin C correct okay so far
40:55 so good right yeah sugar is a dirty fuel
40:58 right
40:59 so sugar is a dirty fuel glucose is
41:02 dirty it generates reactive oxidative
41:04 species and intracellular that’s mostly
41:07 cleaned up through the glutathione pool
41:09 and recycled out cool
41:18 so less glucose intake does two things
41:22 number one it lets more vitamin C get
41:24 into the cell making the vitamin C you
41:26 have more efficient and then by not you
41:30 by using beta oxidation rather than
41:34 glycolysis or and that glycolytic
41:38 metabolic process you’re you’re going to
41:42 end up with a less antioxidant load
41:47 better looks oxidative load so it does
41:52 so you’re burning cleaner so you need
41:55 less antioxidants
41:58 and the stuff that you have is recycled
42:00 and uptake more effectively cool alright
42:05 so I know the in vitamin C as long as I
42:07 eat meat if your carbohydrate loaded is
42:11 sufficiently low your vitamin C
42:13 requirements are lower than the RDA okay
42:16 and so the fact that I’ve been blowing
42:18 off this whole multivitamin thing is
42:19 totally good right you’re free and clear
42:21 oh well so this is what’s interesting
42:28 acceptable is not optimal in many cases
42:32 it will you get scurvy if you eat a
42:37 low-carb diet without vitamin C the
42:41 answer buying largest No
42:43 based on what we’ve seen in these
42:45 populations sure zero carbs some of them
42:48 have been on it for four decades and
42:50 they’re fine they don’t get scurvy and
42:53 they’re not supplementing with vitamin C
42:55 sources and they’re not eating organ
42:57 meats that have vitamin C em right these
43:00 guys are eating RIBA yeah straight up
43:03 without a doubt I mean it but I
43:05 personally know groups with tens of
43:07 thousands of people who are eating
43:10 ribeyes no organ mates at all Wow so how
43:15 are they not getting scurvy right that’s
43:18 the question or isn’t there like like
43:20 other things like rickets and not others
43:23 ton of weird stuff that can happen
43:25 because that that’s just one example
43:27 right and one very specific pathway
43:31 there’s a bunch of other stuff right I
43:33 I’m picking on that specifically but
43:35 what why aren’t they in getting these
43:38 micronutrient deficiencies because
43:41 they’re so far below our understanding
43:44 based on the RDA of a vitamin if you
43:48 look at the chronometer of someone on a
43:51 zero carb diet they are in trouble on a
43:54 number of micronutrients totally yet
43:58 they’re not sick getting sick they’re
44:00 not fallen over they’re not getting
44:01 diseases syndromes and other weird stuff
44:05 they seem to be thriving and they
44:07 certainly claim to be thriving I do I
44:10 just need a chocolate
44:11 and I’ll be one of them well so this is
44:14 where this is where it all gets weird
44:16 okay so now we’ve made a case for why it
44:21 doesn’t appear to be dangerous to do so
44:24 but I want to make the case for why it’s
44:26 not optimal to do so I believe
44:29 biologically purely based on the
44:33 physiological evidence of a coma Kanaka
44:37 construction of your intestine this
44:40 villi especially you were designed to
44:43 host a biofilm you were designed to have
44:47 a fermenting : that’s what your biology
44:51 is clearly adapted to do so it’s my
44:57 belief that anything your biology was
45:00 adapted to do so is optimal to do so
45:05 right well I guess but then aren’t we
45:09 wrong to do keto shouldn’t we be eating
45:14 you know grains and tubers and stuff
45:16 well and in in some cases I would say
45:20 yes okay
45:22 I’m not here to tell you that you
45:25 shouldn’t eat a small amount of carbs
45:27 I’m here to tell you don’t eat a bunch
45:30 of carbs that’s fair that’s all I
45:33 impulsively dough is actually not a
45:35 ketogenic model and part of the reason
45:38 that we haven’t released maintenance
45:41 track is because I could come up with a
45:44 non ketogenic but low carb model that is
45:49 still nutrient-dense low carb low you
45:52 know low glucose load and you know a
45:56 favorable to insulin health and all that
45:58 stuff and I believe would be perfectly
46:00 fine now you know these paleo primal
46:03 ancestral health dudes mm-hmm they’re
46:05 their brothers babe what they’re doing
46:10 is not wrong now they do not get the
46:13 benefits of the anti-inflammatory
46:17 effects of ketogenesis they’d not get
46:20 the benefits of having dual fuel for the
46:24 brain
46:25 I don’t know that for some people that
46:30 matters that much you know maybe me you
46:35 know as a former maybe current diabetic
46:38 or whatever I don’t know the glucose
46:41 control is my number one concern and you
46:44 know it’s totally working and I think
46:45 that if I was starting to carve it up it
46:47 would be a problem for me
46:48 well so this is this is where we get
46:51 into why pathways exist different
46:55 metabolic situations allow for some
46:58 variants and what you can get away with
47:02 and still be inside of that optimal
47:04 envelope right I would say that anyone
47:09 trying to manage a metabolic disease
47:13 really needs to be in ketosis and I
47:18 would say that they need to be focused
47:19 on optimal health as we define optimal
47:23 health that includes gut health zero
47:26 carb is off the table simply because you
47:29 cannot have a healthy gut and B zero
47:31 carb now you can have a neutral gut but
47:35 not a healthy gut because you’re not
47:38 providing the substrate anybody that
47:40 says that they have this great
47:42 fermentation engine while eating an all
47:45 meat diet is lying so it’s here because
47:48 it doesn’t exist because all you have to
47:51 do is say I would like to see how many
47:53 how long it takes you to fill up a five
47:57 gallon bucket with poop you know go oh
47:59 damn
48:00 months months and it wouldn’t take you
48:03 months to fill up the phone book I yeah
48:07 okay we’ll just we’ll just skip over
48:09 that statement thank you but see that’s
48:11 the thing that your body part of the the
48:15 byproduct of being a fermented gut is
48:19 that there is waste product in that
48:22 waste product has volume and bulk yes
48:25 sorry that’s what it is
48:28 all right all right that’s fair whereas
48:30 if you eat nothing but meat
48:32 I’m telling you rabbit pellets if that
48:36 Wow oh yeah
48:39 curious about it but so my real problem
48:42 with it is more of a you know and I know
48:45 that some people have been on in a long
48:46 term but jerks for me part of being a
48:49 person is enjoying social occasions with
48:53 other people and enjoying food and
48:56 exploring you know I haven’t having you
48:59 know enjoyable experiences around food
49:02 and these zero car people they make a
49:04 big deal about how they’ve conquered all
49:06 of their health issues by eating nothing
49:09 but meat but they’ve also learned to
49:11 look at food as just a fuel supply and
49:14 you know they take no joy in it and wow
49:18 it just seems to me that it would be a
49:20 crime not to enjoy food I don’t know
49:27 about all that I mean I hear ya i I’m
49:32 less interested in that aspect of it I’m
49:35 really focused on the biology all right
49:39 all right what can you accomplish with
49:42 nutrition and some of that is certainly
49:45 pleasure soothing experience camaraderie
49:50 by sharing meals with others etc
49:52 etcetera but I I’m all about what’s the
49:56 outcome of the nutrition right like III
49:59 want for me it’s a very clinical process
50:02 alright I’ve just been reading a lot of
50:04 studies bashing keto recently for having
50:07 a very poor long-term adherence rate due
50:11 to people you know getting back on the
50:14 carbs and I would have to think that if
50:16 they ever got to the point where they
50:18 studied zero carb that it’s the hearings
50:20 right would be even even less I would
50:24 think that that’s a very difficult diet
50:26 to deal with especially outside of the
50:30 home because it is very difficult to get
50:35 nothing but meat I mean you’re talking
50:38 about no dairy no vegetables Wow so
50:41 you’re talking about where can you go to
50:45 eat unless it’s a steak place Shane’s
50:48 rib check well yeah I mean that’s kind
50:50 of what you’re you’re limiting yourself
50:52 to is
50:53 where can you get fresh animal flesh and
50:56 there you know you can’t have processed
50:59 stuff because that all has fillers in it
51:01 you know you’re not going to Jimmy
51:04 John’s and getting a nun which le meat
51:07 is no good thank you you have any of
51:09 that that’s all
51:10 got some filler in it yeah so for me
51:16 socially and and culturally and as a as
51:20 oh it like a way of life it’s not one
51:22 you even you know I can see is a short
51:24 term intervention but as a long term
51:26 thing I would work for me I do not have
51:31 a strong point of view on whether or not
51:36 it is a good idea because there’s no
51:41 evidence here’s what I can say I really
51:49 think that optimal follows nature and I
51:54 can look at your gut and I can explain
51:57 to you without question it was designed
52:02 to firm it I believe that fermentation
52:06 is an incredibly important part of
52:09 optimal operation of the human organism
52:11 I would never want to put myself in a
52:14 position where I’m not eating the right
52:18 kinds of foods to power one of the
52:22 largest and certainly the largest
52:24 surface area organ on my body hear hear
52:29 I mean I I don’t know how to explain it
52:32 than that it make a case for why that’s
52:37 not a good idea and I that’s I think
52:40 we’re the arguments fall apart when I
52:42 when I talk to zero car people I just go
52:44 tell me why eating fermented vegetables
52:48 and having a healthy gut and I can a
52:52 value I can I
52:53 I can clinically evaluate a healthy gut
52:56 I have a healthy gut is that ever a bad
53:03 thing how
53:05 and it’s not just is your thing a good
53:07 thing it’s tell me how what I’m doing is
53:10 wrong okay because I have questions
53:13 about whether or not zero carb is right
53:15 or wrong but it would be very difficult
53:18 for you to make a case that what we’re
53:21 doing is wrong I think that based on
53:24 like the primal ancestral you know what
53:26 did we evolve to do kind of reasoning
53:29 that you know it does you you it makes
53:33 sense people ate meat vegetables they
53:35 didn’t eat just meat there was
53:36 vegetables people were opportunistic and
53:39 if something fit in the mouth and it
53:42 didn’t make them throw up and then it’s
53:44 gonna go in that’s right I’ve seen my
53:46 chickens it’s the same thing yeah I
53:49 think the the big boat that we’re
53:51 missing in key impulsive Quito primal
53:54 paleo whatever the whole the whole swath
53:56 is where where are the insects I mean
53:59 you see you know people grabbing up
54:01 those grub worms in third-world
54:02 countries that that’s got to be a
54:04 valuable source nutrition that we’re not
54:06 picking up on well good luck with that
54:15 yeah good luck with that little campaign
54:19 there Jennifer ancestral health been
54:22 insects and worms well we have a we have
54:27 gone long and blown heart about this
54:30 idea of zero carb uh I think the
54:33 takeaway here if you’re listening and
54:35 considering using a model like this okay
54:39 the answer you asked a pretty good
54:41 question which is is this right for me I
54:43 my question to you is what makes you
54:46 think that it’s better or more optimal
54:49 than what we’re suggesting as in the
54:52 impulsive keto meat and two veg model
54:55 and that that I think is the more
54:58 interesting argument to have as a debate
55:01 I want to understand why you would
55:04 expect that restricting that fiber
55:11 brings something that you don’t get by
55:16 having that fiber
55:18 because you’re still getting the amino
55:20 acids and all the protein and the only
55:24 argument that really makes sense is
55:26 autoimmune reactions subclinical
55:29 sensitivities to food groups and I would
55:33 that’s an argument I can’t I can’t argue
55:36 with if you’re someone who is having
55:40 strange reactions to foods and you want
55:44 to eliminate food groups well one way
55:46 would be to eliminate all of them you
55:50 know if you’re sensitive to plants you
55:52 know plants have chemicals in them to
55:54 prevent predation right there and all
55:56 these phytochemicals it’s like the you
55:59 know wheat and some people are sensitive
56:01 to wheat some people are sensitive to
56:03 soy like that all these little and
56:07 plants they have the right they have
56:10 these anti nutrients they have these
56:11 poisons these very mild things that make
56:15 them unfavorable to bugs and animals and
56:18 organisms as some people may be
56:20 sensitive to that and and if that’s your
56:22 argument I can’t argue with that I
56:25 really can’t but I don’t know I for me
56:28 for most people most situations I can
56:33 make a really strong argument for why
56:35 each component of what we advocate
56:39 adequate protein adequate levels of
56:42 fiber intermittent fasting to promote
56:45 hormonal stability health and optimal
56:51 fat loss if you will for most people I
56:55 can make those arguments point by point
56:58 in really good detail and you know we’ve
57:01 spent 40-something hours on a podcast
57:03 doing so I just can’t make those
57:07 arguments for why you would want to
57:11 remove some of these things now I you
57:16 know I want to make a special call out
57:18 some of the smartest guys I know I mean
57:19 Gabor who’s one of the people I turn to
57:22 when I have questions about biochemical
57:26 and physiology stuff he’s one of these
57:29 zero carb dudes he doesn’t eat veg so
57:31 he’s vegetables like once a month
57:32 said well oh okay Haney and he’s a
57:36 really smart guy he’s smarter than I am
57:37 on a lot of the science I respected more
57:42 and if that’s if he’s good with it
57:44 III can’t my remaining objection is
57:48 there’s no chocolate Cal reach
57:50 absolutely
57:52 so we promised to talk about
57:54 electrolytes but we are out of time
57:55 so we’re gonna push that off to the next
57:58 episode really briefly though since we
58:00 teased it Jennifer can you provide us
58:03 with the impulsive keto recommendations
58:06 for electrolytes absolutely that’s a for
58:10 sodium 1,000 to 3,000 milligrams per day
58:15 ideally from from your food but also you
58:20 can track it and make sure okay so hold
58:23 on let’s be real crystal clear 1,000 to
58:26 3,000 supplemental yeah yes I’m sorry
58:29 1000 that translates to about one and a
58:32 half teaspoons of extra salt right
58:36 because you’re already getting some in
58:37 your food so we’re we’re saying you need
58:39 to be at a total of four to six a day
58:43 yeah I know that you’re getting one to
58:45 three in your food already so we need to
58:48 backfill and make up the gap that’s
58:51 right and and I understand that if you
58:53 overshoot on the sodium that it’s okay
58:55 if for most people going high on sodium
58:59 just means they have salty urine okay so
59:03 that’s cool magnesium we recommend
59:06 getting 200 milligrams from your food
59:09 which then you need to supplement an
59:11 additional 400 milligrams in a good
59:15 quality magnesium supplement not
59:17 magnesium oxide which just makes you
59:20 poop and and to be very clear if you
59:23 look at the back of 90% of the magnesium
59:26 pills out there they’re magnesium oxide
59:30 they have terrible viability magnesium
59:34 oxide passes through your body
59:37 unabsorbed I can show you 20 studies
59:40 where it’s been tested you know they’ll
59:42 they’ll give people the pills to measure
59:45 their pee and their poop
59:46 and then they’ll do it without side
59:47 they’ll do it with other forms and you
59:49 can see the oxide passes right through
59:51 it’s it’s not debatable check potassium
59:56 this is important potassium we recommend
59:59 getting 40 700 milligrams per day
60:02 ideally from your food but if it’s not
60:05 coming from your food then supplement up
60:08 to 1200 milligrams which is like half a
60:12 teaspoon of no salt to to bump it up but
60:16 don’t get too much too much is bad and
60:19 that’s definitely constructed around
60:22 trying to keep your average intake well
60:26 below one gram we know that above one
60:30 gram you risk gastrointestinal damage
60:34 like physical damage like you could give
60:36 yourself an ulcer kind of damage it’s
60:39 not good right so you know thinking
60:42 about the typical like a model of two
60:45 meals a day it’s specifically
60:47 constructed to maximize the safety
60:51 window while also trying to provide as
60:54 much as we can so 600 is about his highs
60:56 we’re willing to go and still maintain
60:58 that safety buffer okay and I get a lot
61:01 of potassium from the dark green leafy
61:03 vegetables so I feel pretty good about
61:05 that when Karen and I first came up with
61:07 this recommendation we actually looked
61:10 at hundreds of food logs and ran them
61:12 through basically chronometer to figure
61:14 out what the average potassium intake
61:17 for people is and for most ketogenic
61:20 diets and again you know this is based
61:22 on a relatively small ad hoc survey we
61:27 find that most ketogenic diets are
61:29 getting around 3,000 milligrams of
61:31 potassium in their food nice so we want
61:35 you up at 4500 4700 you know some of it
61:38 so somewhere of a four or four and a
61:40 half grams so we’re advocating you know
61:43 we’re putting an extra thousand 1,500 on
61:46 top of that okay that seems doable it’s
61:50 an exact science all right just a little
61:52 extra no salt in glass of water
61:57 little maybe put some lemon juice in
61:59 there make it
62:00 taystee sure for many people know salt
62:04 which is potassium chloride it taste
62:08 like tinfoil on socks it’s terrible I
62:11 want to recommend that if you’re a long
62:14 term Kido person that you invest in a
62:16 bag of potassium citrate potassium bag
62:20 that just a week ago and Wow you’re
62:22 right it really does taste a lot better
62:24 than the no salt I can give my kids
62:26 potassium citrate I cannot give my kids
62:29 potassium chloride understand how is on
62:36 the market it’s just not good well the
62:38 reason we went with potassium chloride
62:40 as our recommendation is because you can
62:43 find it in the grocery store potassium
62:46 citrate has to be Amazon there’s just no
62:48 way around it so we want to get people
62:50 started with it but the reality is for
62:53 most people’s palates I think it kind of
62:55 ruins food I think it tastes terrible so
63:01 just go to Amazon search for bulk
63:04 potassium citrate and it’ll come up with
63:07 bulk supplements and you get a little
63:09 500 gram thing and then it’s about half
63:14 a teaspoon a day so you’re getting a
63:16 quarter teaspoon twice a day or you know
63:18 an eighth four times or however you want
63:20 to break it up and that’s all you need
63:22 and I see that all the time people
63:26 complaining about the no salt taste I
63:28 really would just want to denote that
63:31 and just I know we’re running out of
63:34 time but getting your electrolytes super
63:37 important people complain they have the
63:38 keto flu that’s because they’re now
63:40 their electrolytes are not right people
63:42 complain that their poop is not right
63:44 probably electrolytes people complain
63:47 their hair is falling out I don’t know
63:49 sometimes like your lights a lot of
63:51 things like any kind of any kind of
63:53 physical ailment that you feel is an
63:56 onset as a result of being ketogenic it
63:59 is likely due to imbalanced electrolytes
64:01 especially salt dizziness fatigue
64:05 constipation are the top three
64:08 complaints for new ketogenic diets often
64:12 called the key to
64:13 and it’s because of insufficient sodium
64:16 1/4 teaspoon of salt and 20 minutes will
64:20 resolve almost 100% of those three
64:24 complaints you know people say why
64:26 should I supplement or you know if this
64:28 is supposed to be such a healthy diet
64:29 how come our you know our ancestors
64:31 surely didn’t supplement our ancestors
64:33 got a lot more minerals in their diet
64:35 because they for variously their water
64:39 wasn’t filtered they ate a lot of
64:41 preserved fermented food that was
64:43 fermented using salt fermentation they
64:45 got a ton of salt we need a ton of salt
64:47 too
64:48 that’s right and that you know if we had
64:51 more time we could circle back around
64:53 the zero carb folks they actually have
64:55 to add salt that’s the one supplement
64:58 that they have to add is that you get
65:02 enough potassium but you do not get
65:03 enough sodium unless you’re drinking
65:05 blood which you know that’s all nothing
65:07 oh okay all right I know you asked
65:15 eating insects earlier so well that’s
65:18 right I mean you’re over here advocating
65:19 cricket flour I can I can talk about
65:21 blood sausage okay that’s fair all right
65:24 with that we’re gonna put a pin in this
65:26 before Jennifer starts bringing up some
65:29 kind of cricket kebab recipes those
65:32 grubs are supposed to be very tasty good
65:34 night everybody
65:35 no one in this podcast is a provider of
65:38 health care and our discussion is based
65:39 on things we be done here now it’s not
65:41 on intend to render
65:43 in the ER doctor my decisions regarding
65:46 medical treatment diagnosis especially
65:47 the impact of the script
65:49 directly prescribing doctor on the
65:50 hability your medication before
65:53 nutritional first or fashion first mini
65:55 vacations are known incompatible longer
65:57 fast
65:58 – dr. powerful
66:02 you
66:06 [Music]
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