Ben and Jennifer get into the whys, hows and wherefores of measuring on keto and the Impulsive Keto measurement-free model. When do you need to track calories, macros, micronutrients, ketones, body measurements, weight, glucose or other things?  What are the best practices to improve overall health without driving us insane with too much data?  Does Jennifer need SmartPants(tm)?  Tune in and find out!

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SHOW NOTES

1:00 Why measure calories and macros?
4:30 Even though we keto, energy deficit must happen to lose fat
6:45 Do we need to measure ketones?
11:00 Some people’s natural appetite is not to be trusted
14:30 People are terrible at eyeballing, estimating and math
16:00 What is 30g of protein in real food
17:55 Ben claims women in particular are terrible at eyeballing
22:00 Tracking in advance as a planning tool
25:00 Jen wings it – palm sized piece of protein
27:45 You still need to log – how Ben does it
30:00 We love ribeyes and filets
31:00 How to measure — Weighing and using MyFitnessPal or Cronometer
33:30 Cronometer, MyFitnessPal, LoseIt
35:30 FitBit — don’t subtract exercise calories
38:30 SmartPants!
40:00 What’s reasonable to log and track? Best practices
41:00 Using the tare function on your food scale
44:30 Ben admits even guys can’t eyeball oil quantities well
45:30 Keeping it simple by avoiding Keto Kooky Cookery & odd ingredients – Impulsive Keto simplified model
51:00 Look at the 30g thread on our facebook group for examples of simple, good keto meals
55:30 Fatty sauces added to veg
59:00 ImpulsiveKeto.com macro calculator for people who need strict discipline
1:02:00 Cronometer has great micronutrient tracking & superior accuracy, potassium tracking
1:05:00 Glucose and ketone measuring? Neither are necessary for weight loss
1:12:00 Jen just got a continuous glucose meter and makes some observations that are complicated and interesting
1:15:00 KetoStix and measuring ketones in urine – potentially good info for new ketoers, useless for everyone else
1:20:00 Level of ketones don’t matter, unless you have a medical condition you’re treating with ketones like epilepsy or traumatic brain injury
1:23:00 You can keep it simple – palm-sized piece of meat and green, leafy veggies and use a cheap food scale.  Calorie deficit is necessary in order to lose weight. Learn how to eyeball cheese. Use tech as you see fit.  Cronometer is a great app.

FULL TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS

00:04 this podcast was brought to you by
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00:19 [Music]
00:26 well hello and welcome to another
00:29 edition of the impulsive keto cast I’m
00:31 your host Ben McDonald today’s episode
00:34 is on tracking and logging why do we
00:37 talk about that why do we not advocate
00:40 that in the impulsive keto group and
00:41 we’re gonna explain a little bit about
00:44 their relationship to macronutrients to
00:46 speak about such matters I have brought
00:49 along Jennifer of the inferior sex how
00:53 is your measurement going it’s it’s
00:55 fabulous I measure so many things but
00:58 fear your sex you hold on just a minute
01:01 there mister well so here’s the thing
01:08 unfortunately many of your peers have
01:11 done a poor job historically measuring
01:15 by eye what is going on with their plate
01:19 well that may be true but it’s it’s not
01:24 it’s not universally true okay don’t
01:26 don’t assume I can eyeball things within
01:30 tablespoons I’m a simple man with a
01:32 broad brush Jennifer this is not a
01:35 scalpel surgery with your rare corner
01:37 cases your way rare corner I think that
01:44 for many of us having a food scale is
01:48 very important because eyeballing yes
01:51 that’s true it tends to be a bit off
01:53 okay but I think dudes have just as hard
01:56 a time of it I will say that in my own
01:59 household
02:00 my wife’s ability to measure almond
02:02 butter is off by a factor of five that’s
02:08 such a pretty big factor okay we had to
02:10 start buying almond butter from Costco
02:12 she goes through so much of this and
02:14 then you say well how much almond butter
02:16 using Oh
02:17 never more than a tablespoon a day oh
02:20 dear
02:21 meaning she used a tablespoon too as a
02:24 scoop correct that’s nice and there’s
02:28 got to be it’s so shallow you probably
02:31 need like three scoops in order to get a
02:32 tables for anything no I I discovered
02:38 the relationship between a using a table
02:40 spoon is an implement and using a table
02:42 spoon as a unit of measure it’s not the
02:44 same that is correct
02:47 here’s my take on this we believe
02:51 especially for new or newer people who
02:55 are new to nutrition there is an a need
02:59 for a certain level of competency to
03:02 understand what you’re eating and
03:04 specifically what’s in what you’re
03:07 eating the life way to develop that is
03:12 to track what you’re doing in the food
03:16 as a number of things that are quite
03:19 relevant to someone trying to lose
03:21 weight via the diet you have calories
03:25 which is a measurement of energy but
03:30 then you also have macronutrients which
03:33 define the contents of that nutrition
03:36 things like protein that’s used to help
03:38 your body build and maintain muscle fat
03:41 which is primarily an energy device and
03:44 carbohydrate which comes as starches and
03:47 sugars that are used by your body as
03:50 high speed fuel alright I got some
03:55 problems with this already okay alright
03:58 I was told that in keto the calories are
04:03 an outdated outmoded concept that we no
04:05 longer believe in also I was told that
04:13 in impulsive keto we don’t even track
04:17 macros so so what are you talking about
04:19 then calories macros what the heck allow
04:22 me to explain massive ok so here’s
04:26 what’s going on I need you
04:31 to eat less energy then your body needs
04:35 to fuel itself in order to get your body
04:39 to use the body energy storage the body
04:46 fat because if you think about it what
04:49 is body fat it is an adipose tissue that
04:53 holds lipid droplets which is just a
04:55 form of energy storage okay it’s not
05:00 storing fat it’s storing energy all
05:04 right we need energy by that to be used
05:07 by your body to fuel it if you eat more
05:13 than is required ketogenic or not you
05:19 are not going to lose body fat
05:23 well I’ve personally experienced that so
05:25 I can’t argue with that then this is why
05:28 we lose our minds when people start
05:30 talking about 400 calorie cups of coffee
05:33 with butter and chocolate coconut oil
05:37 and who knows what else people put in
05:39 their things oh my god I just saw a guy
05:42 on our keto Facebook group respond you
05:45 know what should I order its keto
05:47 friendly at Starbucks he said get a
05:49 large coffee with half a cup of whipping
05:52 cream yeah oh yeah Wow absolutely yeah
05:57 so 1/2 a cup of whipping cream I looked
05:59 it up is about 410 calories or 40 44
06:03 grams of fat yes profoundly ketogenic
06:08 food well yeah not a lot of carbs
06:12 however are you are we interested in
06:16 being in the ketogenic state are we
06:20 interested in losing weight personally I
06:24 you know they they say like you can
06:26 measure your ketones and it’s something
06:29 maybe we should talk about on this show
06:30 bent measuring but I never measured my
06:33 ketones I only care about that I don’t
06:36 have that hunger with the carb thing and
06:39 that I lose weight
06:43 I couldn’t care less if you’re in
06:46 ketosis unless you have a medical reason
06:49 for being in ketosis some examples of
06:53 good things that come out of ketones
06:56 inflammation brain health management of
07:04 insulin resistance all good things not
07:09 bad things not required for weight loss
07:12 though nada hi
07:14 I was shocked to discover that people
07:15 can lose weight on high carb diets
07:18 shockingly if if the ketogenic diet did
07:23 not exist the probably the second best
07:25 diet for losing weight is something like
07:29 a potato diet I I like potatoes
07:35 well what’s cool about potatoes very
07:39 starchy they’re starchy plenty of energy
07:42 yeah
07:44 that’s it that’s all I got you can’t eat
07:47 but so many of them before you get bored
07:50 well you haven’t seen me in a bag of
07:53 french fries mister the what that’s
07:55 french fries it’s not the French fry
07:58 diet it’s the baked potato diet Oh a
08:01 baked potato diet is so boring that you
08:06 will only eat a certain amount and then
08:08 you’ll stop well what are you 3,000
08:12 calories of baked potato in a day with
08:15 sour cream and child it’s not the sour
08:18 cream diet it’s the big potato duck
08:19 mm-hmm you can’t do it
08:22 salt well salt hey you have a little
08:25 salt if you want to but it won’t matter
08:27 huh you can’t you couldn’t do it you
08:29 couldn’t eat 2,000 calories a baked
08:31 potato or if you did it one day you
08:33 couldn’t do it three days in a row yeah
08:34 that’s probably true you would you would
08:37 go insane and you would begin to develop
08:39 this relationship with food that does
08:41 not involve any pleasure whatsoever it
08:45 would be hunger management and that’s it
08:48 oh it’s weird right but yes that’s
08:51 that’s what ketosis can bring is a
08:55 management of the hormone
08:57 environment satiety mm-hmm well I don’t
09:02 I don’t think eating pounds and pounds
09:04 of potatoes does sound that appetizing
09:06 so I’ll skip the experiment well not
09:10 only that but it has a nutrition thing
09:14 it’s not great for your gut and it’s
09:17 certainly not doing anything for you as
09:20 far as providing a biodiverse nutrient
09:23 intake yeah you know who knows what kind
09:25 of vitamin deficiencies you would get if
09:27 you kept doing that well I think the
09:29 Irish could speak to them well yeah
09:31 that’s exactly right
09:32 you’re not you’re not in an optimal
09:34 protein status you’re not in a great
09:37 state for nutrition it’s not a good
09:40 choice okay that’s fair but when it
09:43 comes to why you would lose weight if I
09:46 can constrain your calories you will
09:48 lose weight it does not matter if you’re
09:50 eating bean soup bananas
09:53 potatoes or bacon you will lose weight
09:56 if you eat less calories than your body
09:59 needs to survive I know that to be a
10:04 fact I’ve read this lots of people they
10:06 have a McDonald’s diet the guy goes and
10:08 eats crap but less calories than he’s
10:10 burning and he lives this way he just
10:12 did develops acne and in a gut sure is
10:17 the primary way that you lose weight is
10:21 through caloric deficit all right so I
10:26 gotta track that to be sure because
10:28 obviously my natural instincts have not
10:31 led me to success you know I I had
10:34 weight
10:35 I mean I’ve lost most of it but if I let
10:38 my natural appetite guide me there
10:42 wouldn’t be any ice cream left in
10:43 Georgia so there’s an important thing
10:46 you just said Jennifer I want to put a
10:47 real pin on it so it doesn’t sneak past
10:50 the audience your natural instincts were
10:54 developed around natural food not hyper
10:58 palatable food like deep fried french
11:02 potatoes oh yeah that’s like chocolate
11:05 cake and ice cream
11:07 those are refined products that contain
11:10 a
11:11 extra nutrient density above and beyond
11:13 what could be found naturally peanut
11:18 butter so my natural appetite is just
11:21 not to be trusted at this point it’s
11:22 been warped if you ate natural foods in
11:28 most cases it will all work out
11:34 infrared like if I ate natural whole
11:39 grains like pure something do you think
11:43 a lot of people have lost weight on
11:45 Weight Watchers counting points would
11:47 deal a meal I understand that some of
11:50 them have yeah absolutely millions of
11:53 people have lost weight doing those kind
11:55 of low-fat models mm-hmm
11:57 because it’s calorie restriction that
12:01 matters seems like a lot of them a lot
12:04 of them don’t keep it off though well
12:07 there’s there’s bigger issues at play
12:09 but when it comes to why calories are so
12:13 important I want to ring the bell as
12:15 crystal clear as I can which is weight
12:18 loss is directly a function of calorie
12:21 deficit if you eat tubs of almond butter
12:24 you will be in ketosis and you will not
12:28 lose any weight I can I definitely agree
12:32 with that
12:33 if you butter your coffee and any big
12:36 meals any 3,000 calories a day you will
12:40 not lose weight in fact you you might
12:44 gain a lot of weight indeed there may
12:47 even be some experts out there that are
12:49 having difficulty losing weight while
12:52 being profoundly ketogenic you know I
12:56 saw that I we’re not gonna name any
12:58 names there right there’s no need to put
13:01 a pin a rose on someone’s nose okay then
13:05 but if you look at the style of ketosis
13:09 that’s being advocated by these folks
13:12 who are not I had a healthy weight and
13:16 not on track towards a healthy weight
13:20 there’s a common thread and it’s
13:24 buttered coffee it’s measuring ketones
13:26 it’s a misunderstanding of the biology
13:29 they surprised me crazier on some of
13:31 these these forums or groups or
13:33 everything people say oh you’re not
13:34 losing weight you need to eat more fat
13:36 that’s right Wow yes more fat will make
13:40 you more ketogenic yeah what like the
13:45 people in the concentration camps they
13:48 withered away because they were getting
13:49 too much fat I don’t understand right
13:51 and that’s exactly the thing is the
13:55 ketosis is a symptom it’s a side effect
13:57 it’s a metabolic gimmick that allows us
14:00 to measure a successful hormone
14:03 manipulation it doesn’t have anything to
14:05 do with weight loss well good because
14:08 I’ve never never measured my ketones I
14:11 haven’t either
14:12 why I take it back I played around the
14:14 breath well I was thinking about it but
14:18 I just don’t see any reason to
14:20 well I borrowed it because I wanted to
14:22 do some experiments and then you find
14:24 out that things are completely
14:25 unreliable that’s what I figured ok so
14:30 let’s talk about why I believe most
14:34 people new to the ketogenic diet should
14:37 track somewhat why do you believe that
14:41 because they are terrible when it comes
14:46 to understanding quantity of calories in
14:51 front of them and composition of
14:53 nutrition such as how much protein is in
14:56 there I’ll give you an example ok
15:00 just yesterday on the boards someone
15:03 asked me hey these macros can’t be right
15:07 it’s telling me to eat a hundred and 20
15:09 grams of protein that’s 3 pounds of
15:12 chicken what oh I know that us Americans
15:16 are handicapped when it comes to the
15:18 pound metric issue but no that can’t
15:22 possibly be right three pounds of
15:23 chicken well they were using it they
15:27 were using a tool that gave them a
15:30 misrepresentation of the nutrient
15:32 composition of chicken and because they
15:36 weren’t good at estimating it themselves
15:38 they couldn’t look and go wait three
15:39 pounds of chicken for 120 grams like
15:41 that’s not right that’s not even close
15:43 it’s off by at least 200 percent I would
15:47 say so at least exactly Wow
15:51 it do you know the other thing that we
15:54 get every now and then that’s really
15:55 spooky 30 grams of protein do you know
15:59 how small a piece of 30 grams of steak
16:02 is guys I’m gonna be hungry all day if
16:05 this is all I can eat
16:06 oh I see what you’re doing there though
16:09 of course already grams of protein it
16:12 would only be 30 grams of steak of steak
16:14 was a hundred percent protein no water
16:16 no fat and connective tissue but no it’s
16:19 got other stuff in it besides pure
16:22 protein there’s a hundred posts on the
16:24 board right now about that if you go
16:25 back in the archives you there there
16:28 that that is a common frequently asked
16:31 question well I think it’s easy to
16:33 misunderstand you think you you know you
16:35 talk about proteins people refer to
16:37 meats as proteins yep I’m not mad about
16:41 it I’m mad at the educational system for
16:43 not teaching people more about the
16:45 nutrient composition of their food or
16:47 the metric system why are we on the
16:49 metric system anyway yes thank you all
16:52 right all right okay totally agree and
16:55 one of the things that I really like
16:58 about the impulsive Kino model that
17:00 you’ve explained this you know that if
17:01 you roughly estimate a palm-sized piece
17:03 of protein roughly 30 grams of protein
17:07 and there’s no real need to get fussy
17:08 about it right that’s right we’re
17:12 getting ahead of ourselves a little bit
17:13 though okay okay I’m excited that we’re
17:16 building a case we shall build the case
17:21 first all right all right I’m just I I
17:24 loved the impulsive keto model and it I
17:25 get excited about it Oh shucks all right
17:29 all right so here we go
17:31 we believe that it is important for you
17:34 to have a crystal clear understanding of
17:36 how much food in the form of energy you
17:40 are partaking in until you have a
17:43 relatively good sense of that so that
17:45 you know whether or not you can be
17:48 trusted and in many cases what’s
17:51 actually going to
17:52 need to happen is some skills
17:53 development the males in our society Oh
17:56 Mike I’ve learned how to estimate my
18:00 eyeball weights measures and lengths not
18:04 the males I know but okay go on all
18:06 right
18:07 many folks all right there we can email
18:13 persuasion oh wait
18:16 have a little bit of a struggle when it
18:19 comes to estimating sizes and weights
18:23 because of the society that we live upon
18:27 I how many ants you know everybody’s got
18:33 an aunt who was a precision Baker right
18:36 had crazy measuring cups and tablespoons
18:41 and everything else right yeah okay
18:43 baking is an exact science that does not
18:46 allow for shenanigans and close enough
18:49 because the textures will not be
18:51 consistent from batch to batch that’s
18:54 true
18:55 this is the environ environment that
18:58 most females have learned so they rely
19:03 upon technology to do the work for them
19:07 all right I don’t know what to women you
19:10 grow up with but the women that I live
19:12 with and and though we all order out
19:16 then none of us cook see there you go I
19:18 mean that’s a whole nother level of
19:21 abstraction that must be dealt upon so I
19:25 don’t think we’re even that familiar
19:26 with the measuring cup sort of thing but
19:28 go on we need you to develop a core
19:33 competency which is the ability to
19:36 assess about how much energy is in a
19:39 given food and about how much protein is
19:43 in a given food you’re going to have to
19:47 memorize which foods have carbs in them
19:49 because there’s no way to tell other
19:51 than a no but the good news is there
19:53 really aren’t that many foods in the
19:54 world so it does not take long to learn
19:58 that piece of it but when it comes to
20:00 when it comes to weights and measures we
20:03 need you to track
20:05 you need to know if you want to lose
20:07 weight you need to be able to eat at a
20:11 deficit if you eat it too large of a
20:13 deficit you will feel tired and hungry
20:15 and you will have binges and you will
20:18 struggle and in some cases your hormones
20:22 might even down regulate I’ve heard
20:25 about that there’s a sweet spot and the
20:29 best way to put you into that sweet spot
20:30 is with accuracy especially when dealing
20:34 with energy dense things you know that
20:38 that’s the worst is the fats I mean I
20:40 think I’m okay with the proteins and the
20:43 carbs but if I am off by a little bit
20:47 with the fats that’s a 100 Cal I could
20:51 be easily off by a hundred two hundred
20:52 calories without even knowing it you
20:55 know what I need to do is go down to the
20:57 State Fair and open up one of those
20:58 booths and I’m just gonna have a big
21:01 block of cheddar cheese and I’m gonna go
21:03 here for five bucks and we give you a
21:06 knife and you cut off a hundred calories
21:08 of cheddar cheese and if you’re if
21:10 you’re within 50% of them correct you
21:14 win the stuff to kewpie doll it’s just
21:17 sad with that with that game be
21:19 profitable for me yeah yeah you clean up
21:21 I think so it’s crazy how much calories
21:25 is in very small pieces of things Oh
21:29 nuts you know you want a hundred
21:31 calories worth of almonds like ten
21:35 that’s like nine almonds if you grind
21:38 them up into butter and put them on it
21:39 on a spoon late at night where you
21:41 staying in your socks in your pajamas
21:44 that that measurement becomes even more
21:46 difficult to do that’s the problem I
21:48 agree so here’s what you’re gonna have
21:51 to do folks you’re going to have to
21:54 track your food a little bit so that you
21:56 can learn oh that’s how much cheese is a
22:00 hundred calories sad but true once you
22:05 got it then you got it you know I think
22:08 there’s another really good reason to
22:10 track okay when I actually track in
22:15 advance cuz I don’t want to eat so much
22:17 and then discover afterwards that I ate
22:18 too
22:19 so I logged my food ahead of time and
22:23 that gives me control that I wouldn’t
22:26 have had otherwise because then I’m like
22:27 alright so I planned to eat this it’s
22:29 log I know it fits my back-row goals and
22:33 you know sure I could blow it by hitting
22:36 the jar of almond butter sure but that’s
22:39 my choice but I know in advance where
22:41 I’m at so as a planning tool it allows
22:48 you to pre-portion your setup so that
22:53 you’re kind of ready to go I know I’m
22:55 having this this is what I’m gonna have
22:57 that’s all that goes on my plate and
22:58 it’s already been preordained yeah and
23:02 then it gives me permission to enjoy my
23:05 food without knowing that without
23:07 worrying that I’m screwing it up I think
23:12 for a lot of people that is helpful I as
23:17 much talk as we see on the boards about
23:19 meal prepping I don’t think you’re alone
23:22 in that I think people do it for
23:24 convenience of being able to grab and go
23:27 because everybody’s so busy
23:29 nobody has free time anymore I don’t
23:31 know if you’ve noticed that jennifer and
23:32 I for all this technology and the life
23:36 of leisure has gone out the window
23:38 people don’t have time to cook there go
23:41 go go they need be able to grab lunch
23:43 and make six lunches at a time and grab
23:46 a piece of Tupperware and hit the door
23:48 true I feel like being able to
23:51 pre-portion meals is certainly helpful
23:54 for that too for many reasons
23:57 convenience and peace of mind
24:00 I think the accountability piece is a
24:04 huge part of us the ability to hold
24:09 yourself accountable for your own
24:11 choices externally can keep a lot of
24:16 people in their rational brain rather
24:20 than their lizard brain it also gives me
24:24 assurance that I’m not eating too few
24:28 calories I don’t want to go into that
24:29 state you mentioned where my thyroid
24:31 deep down regulate
24:32 or what have you so I don’t want to you
24:36 know deprive myself unnecessarily sure
24:39 right there’s certainly an effective
24:42 dose of restriction right we are not
24:45 advocating the Viking fast model of
24:47 weight loss and I’m gonna possibly get
24:53 in trouble here I don’t actually try to
24:56 precisely hit my protein macros all
24:59 right I wing it
24:59 okay see this is this is why I get
25:02 accused of being misogynist but here you
25:04 are it’s close enough for government
25:07 work on the protein so I’m just I just
25:12 like to point that out all angry emails
25:15 you go to the stereotype at impulsive
25:18 keto diet come if you have any further
25:21 feedback on that point you you set this
25:24 up you said palm-sized piece of protein
25:26 use yes and that’s fine I’m like yeah I
25:30 don’t have to measure anything and hey
25:32 home size check see there you go all
25:34 right makes me happy you know you can
25:39 get so micro precise on this and then
25:42 you’re like why are you not losing
25:44 weight well your protein macros are 10
25:45 grams too low or 10 grams too high or
25:47 something you know what that’s so quite
25:50 like 2 teaspoons worth of protein I mean
25:52 come on it doesn’t do you have to be
25:55 precise I don’t think so I don’t think
25:59 it’s even possible to be precise so you
26:02 mentioned using tools to find out you
26:05 know what yeah it’s a log and track
26:08 macros and nutrient content and stuff
26:12 there is no USDA standard of steak that
26:17 guarantees that my steak conforms to
26:20 that steak right I think we can make
26:27 some assumptions about general
26:29 nutritional contents certainly there in
26:33 any natural product there’s variants
26:37 I would think that a carrot is a carrot
26:41 and you know a piece of filet is going
26:45 to be similar to
26:46 five other pieces of fillet which is
26:49 gonna be different than a ribeye well
26:51 I’m gonna disagree with you even there
26:53 because I buy some of my beef from a
26:57 neighbor’s farm where his cattle are
26:59 grass fed and pastured and his stakes
27:02 are much leaner than the stakes I get at
27:05 the grocery store if I have to buy it
27:06 from there okay fair point certainly a
27:10 difference between wild caught salmon
27:11 and farm raised salmon yeah yeah huge
27:15 but found difference in fat content
27:18 right you can you can see it the color
27:20 the taste it’s like very different but
27:23 how do you know well you don’t but you
27:29 can wing with you can wing it
27:30 sorry you can get close and that’s what
27:34 we’re advocating is we want you to be in
27:36 the ballpark there’s this is you can
27:39 round up and round down as long as
27:42 you’re in the ballpark if you can’t tell
27:46 me with a certain level of precision
27:48 what your average calorie intake is then
27:51 you don’t really know if you’re
27:54 consistently performing in a deficit
27:57 that’s gonna keep your weight loss on
27:58 track alright so how do you do it then
28:01 what do you do well for the most part I
28:06 eyeball it okay I use very simple
28:10 mnemonics to measure things I know that
28:15 a tablespoon of something that’s mostly
28:17 fat is about a hundred calories mm-hmm
28:19 olive oil
28:21 NZD oil butter it’s all tablespoon
28:24 hundred calories there huh I know that
28:27 steak is about 30 grams of protein for
28:31 every 5 ounces ok and 5 ounces is like
28:40 what we’re talking about with the palm
28:41 size but yes so for most steak or most
28:47 meats a piece about the size of your
28:50 palm is going to have about 5 ounces of
28:56 you know matter in it which is about 30
29:00 grams of
29:01 now there’s some variants like fish for
29:03 example fish is light and flaky and has
29:05 a high water content fish does not have
29:08 30 grams per 5 ounces no and some fish
29:13 is a lot less fatty than than steak you
29:15 know if I get like a sashimi grade tuna
29:17 steak or something that’s like we’re
29:18 pure protein yes but a less dense
29:22 protein because of the high water
29:24 content that is true but very tasty
29:28 protein probably the most dense thing I
29:31 could think of would be like chicken
29:33 breast dry chicken breast oh yeah I’m
29:37 sorry bad memories I know right we’ve
29:40 all had bad chicken breasts that’s super
29:42 dry that’s basically pure protein that
29:45 is a lot of protein per ounce nasty
29:48 that’s kind of the high-water mark and
29:51 then it goes backwards from there
29:52 depending on how much fat you know think
29:54 about a ribeye nice greasy ribeye versus
29:56 a New York Strip right near your strips
29:59 kind of a dry cut the fats on the
30:00 outside you don’t even have to do them I
30:02 prefer the relay yeah I think a lot of
30:06 people a connoisseur of steak would
30:09 normally choose a ribeye over a New York
30:11 Strip
30:11 but wise filet so delightful because
30:14 it’s marbled was fat right I feeling
30:17 it’s difficult to see but it’s there
30:19 okay so that that’s where you know
30:23 there’s a lot of nuance in all this we
30:26 don’t expect anybody to get deep into
30:29 the nuance but you can see Jennifer and
30:31 I are very conversant in this even
30:33 though neither one of us are really
30:34 expert trackers because there’s a sense
30:39 of things and you know where we’re using
30:41 the ballpark and rules of thumb and it
30:43 kind of works out I think it works out
30:46 but I still sometimes when I really want
30:49 to you know make sure that my my diet is
30:53 on point
30:54 I crack out the food scale and I weigh
30:57 everything and I’d down to the you know
30:59 the gram I track it and I put it in my
31:02 tracking app which to be honest I use my
31:06 fitness bell and that you know is it I
31:12 have some struggles with that but it
31:14 it’s easy so that that’s what I do I
31:17 think as we think about what is a
31:21 minimum you need you need some sort of
31:24 measuring device you need volume
31:27 measuring devices which are gonna be
31:28 cups and spoons right and you need
31:33 weight which is gonna be one of these
31:36 little cheap fifteen dollar digital
31:38 scales they’re cheap I haven’t I haven’t
31:40 got a small portable one for my purse I
31:44 to me that’s overkill I don’t I don’t
31:48 with my food I never actually used it
31:51 but I respect people who do I really do
31:55 I like I’m not just saying that I get it
31:59 for me I don’t want that relationship
32:03 but that goes back to what we were
32:06 talking about with what is the purpose
32:08 of this the verb is is accuracy of
32:10 unashamed what you’re eating but for
32:12 many people tracking provides more
32:17 structure that improves compliance
32:20 whether it’s guilt over having to write
32:24 down the fact that you ate six
32:25 tablespoons of almond butter in your
32:27 socks or whether it’s strategic analysis
32:31 of meal prepping like you’re talking
32:33 about I made tomorrow’s meals in a plan
32:37 tonight and I’m going to adhere to that
32:40 which will help my compliance tomorrow
32:42 I like the compliance part it makes me
32:45 feel good about myself control and my
32:48 ability and then I can you know eat
32:50 without fear of guilt everybody has
32:55 their own journey Jennifer I I really
32:57 don’t I I’m not here to poopoo folks who
33:01 think that that’s helpful okay I think
33:04 for many it is but am i everyone my
33:07 focus is on building a case for simple
33:15 measurements but also being smart about
33:18 your own capability of assessing what’s
33:22 going on so do you use an app to track
33:26 or you just
33:28 keep a log in your head what do you do I
33:31 do not track actively however there’s a
33:35 tool that I recommend called chronometer
33:38 chronometer you you know however you
33:40 pronounce that I and chronometer rolls
33:43 off the tongue better it’s an app for
33:46 your phone it’s a website whatever you
33:49 want to go to there’s others
33:51 MyFitnessPal lose it or to other real
33:54 popular ones that allow you to put in
33:58 the food that you’re eating accurately
34:02 measured and it will assess the
34:04 nutrition information that comes in I
34:07 personally will use chronometer
34:10 periodically to assess my nutrient
34:14 intake because one of the cool things
34:17 about that application over some of the
34:19 others is it will provide micronutrient
34:23 information if I want to assess my
34:26 vitamin like how much vitamin E did I
34:30 eat how how much mag eni’s did I get in
34:34 my food last week chronometer will help
34:38 me do that I’d like to know that I
34:40 should probably try switching the thing
34:43 is I got a Fitbit and it automatically
34:48 syncs with My Fitness Pal
34:50 I don’t even syncs with pedometer though
34:51 I’m not sure have to look into that well
34:57 so here’s the thing you shouldn’t be
35:01 subtracting calories off at Fitbit in
35:03 any ways of course I do not do that then
35:08 I’m not really yeah really
35:12 that’s very good in default settings
35:15 options is to subtract your daily steps
35:18 as calories from your macro targets
35:22 that’s the default setting right that is
35:24 true no unacceptable but if I workout
35:30 really good then that lets me eat more
35:33 right if you could accurately assess
35:36 your workouts as a calorie then yes
35:41 most people can I don’t know how you
35:43 could really well there are only a few
35:46 sports that would allow you to do so
35:48 cycling rowing yeah basically if you
35:52 don’t have a watt meter and a heart rate
35:53 monitor you can’t do it you can guess
35:57 but you’ll be off by so much it like we
36:01 running a if I if you and I went out for
36:04 a run and we just did a two-mile run
36:07 yeah the number of calories you would
36:09 burn versus number of calories I would
36:11 burn would be very different
36:13 I expect so but different size yeah use
36:18 some of these tools and you may get the
36:20 same number yeah
36:23 the treadmill at the gym they always you
36:25 know have a readout but they don’t know
36:27 you they’re wrong I mean they’re
36:29 terribly wrong
36:30 yeah I’ve seen Jeb mill told me I’ve
36:32 burned 600 calories in half an hour well
36:35 as someone who has been you know I’ve
36:39 had vo2 analysis on my calorie burn let
36:42 me tell you it is not physically
36:44 possible for me to burn 600 calories in
36:47 30 minutes because you can’t sustain
36:48 enough power output to burn that many
36:51 that much energy okay a lot of energy
36:54 but those things lie that’s my point is
36:58 we do not want your macros to be
37:01 externally influenced by anything other
37:02 than nutrition fitbit’s are great and a
37:06 good assessment tool certainly a good
37:08 logging and accountability tool but as
37:11 far as your macros go no subtraction of
37:14 any kind that’s fair I guess but the
37:18 Fitbit it also links to my smart
37:20 Bluetooth scale and all centralizes all
37:24 my measurements so it’s a nice tool I
37:28 I dig the Fitbit I really do especially
37:30 the one that has the heart rate tracking
37:31 too because that’s that the great date
37:34 is very nice to have the number of steps
37:37 in a day I mean that I see a lot of
37:40 folks doing the 10,000 step challenge
37:42 hey if that gets you moving awesome but
37:46 10,000 steps as walking does not have a
37:50 huge a that’s getting you out of this
37:52 sedentary category as a human
37:55 mm-hmm but as far as metabolic health
37:57 goes mmm it’s a start
38:00 and for some people I be me a big start
38:03 that’s what I’m saying
38:04 Yeah right absolutely if you’re if
38:07 you’re otherwise you know you if you
38:10 would only do like a thousand two
38:11 thousand steps a day ten thousand is
38:12 gonna help for sure sure absolutely
38:15 I’m not impressed by the calor aqui
38:18 assumptions made by these gizmos is mike
38:23 well that’s fair okay
38:25 that’s my point I like my Fitbit as
38:27 central health information to hoga
38:30 you’re a gadget gal you’re the kind of
38:33 person who advice markets you know
38:36 that’s a thing all right I mentioned
38:38 that earlier but it is actually a thing
38:40 you can get pants that are smart pants
38:43 that you have an app on your phone and
38:44 they automatically measure your waist
38:47 and hips when you put them on so you
38:49 know you know it’s not just what the
38:54 scale says how many pounds you weigh but
38:55 are you losing inches around your waist
38:57 or hips or anything tell you this is
39:00 what I’m talking about ladies and
39:01 gentlemen Jennifer would rather buy a
39:03 pair of pants that’s Bluetooth equipped
39:05 to tap on your phone rather than just
39:08 measure her waist with a tape measure
39:10 this is the kind of person we’re dealing
39:12 with here folks it’s so cool and they’re
39:15 stylish uh-huh I’ll bet smart pants but
39:22 wait there is more did you know that you
39:24 can also get a smart fork for helping
39:27 you measure how much you eat see here we
39:29 go again with this right there’s a level
39:32 of measurement that exceeds rational
39:36 thought yeah okay get into the smaller
39:40 smart salt shaker or as they call its
39:42 mold oh my goodness no no we’re not
39:47 going to it all right so let’s talk
39:52 about reasonable levels of tracking okay
39:55 weigh in measuring your food to learn
39:59 how much nutrition and energy is in the
40:02 food that you’re eating make sense to me
40:05 make sense to be I can find off on that
40:07 logging
40:09 your input right logging your food for
40:12 purposes of planning accountability and
40:15 compliance makes sense to me I agree
40:21 being able to adequately provide
40:24 sufficient nutrition on average and
40:27 having confidence that you are doing so
40:30 makes sense to me
40:34 measuring measuring things with too much
40:38 granularity trying to be too perfect to
40:41 exact you know how many calories are in
40:45 this quarter pad of butter hmm kind of
40:48 stuff this is a game of dollars not
40:52 nickels you know I’m gonna share
40:56 actually will tip on that it really
40:58 helped me because I agree that you know
41:00 it’s it gets kind of overwhelming but
41:03 that’s where that food scale really
41:05 helps because you know like if you have
41:06 to measure everything separately it’s a
41:08 pain in the butt but if you’re like
41:10 throwing things in a bowl and you’re
41:12 measuring incrementally with your food
41:15 scale so like you get chunk a pad of
41:18 butter in there and it will tell you how
41:21 many grams that is and then it’s easy to
41:23 calculate from there whereas if you’re
41:24 sitting there trying with a tablespoon
41:26 and trying to figure out you know with
41:29 the cup or something like that how you
41:31 know volume measurements volume
41:33 measurements are annoying
41:33 okay so Jennifer you’re talking about
41:36 the tare button so explicitly explain
41:38 the process for this because I think a
41:40 lot of people have that button they
41:42 don’t know what it does oh yeah it’s
41:43 great button the tare button you hit the
41:46 button and it zeros out the scale and
41:48 then you throw something else oh you
41:50 sound like you already have a bowl on
41:51 top of your scale you hit the tare
41:53 button now it says zero and then you can
41:56 throw more stuff in the bowl and it will
41:58 measure starting from there so as you’re
42:01 building up your food you don’t have to
42:05 worry how much does the bowl away how
42:06 much does the stuff I already got in
42:08 their way it tells you you just added a
42:10 pad of butter that weighs 5 grams and
42:13 negative so here’s my here’s the make
42:18 sure I understand I put my digital scale
42:20 on the counter
42:21 I put the bowl the glass bowl on top of
42:24 the scale I hit the zero button the
42:27 scale goes to zero I dump in a handful
42:31 of chicken it says a hundred grams check
42:34 put that into my food logging tool
42:37 hundred grams of chicken then I hit the
42:39 zero button the scale goes back to zero
42:43 even though the chickens still in the
42:44 bowl yes I then dump in the heavy cream
42:49 one ounce of heavy cream what that in
42:53 luck yeah then I hit the zero button
42:57 again and then I add the walnuts 50
43:02 grams of walnuts
43:06 it’s not easy yeah it’s super easy to do
43:11 it in that method that’s what that tare
43:14 / 0 button depending on what scale you
43:16 have that’s what that buttons for
43:19 otherwise it pain they ass yeah now what
43:25 if you’re an improvisational chef not
43:28 using recipes oh gosh well you could use
43:32 that method you just be recording what
43:37 you’re throwing in the bowl I guess it
43:40 does require a little bit of extra step
43:42 if you’re someone that normally just
43:43 starts chucking stuff into the pan right
43:45 it does but it’s so easy if you’re just
43:48 chucking stuff in the pan you know you
43:50 think you’ve checked in one tablespoon
43:51 of butter but it was really – and all of
43:53 a sudden you’re a hundred calories of
43:55 fat off that’s right and that that’s
43:58 where that’s where the hundred calorie
44:00 sneaks in is you eyeball the butter
44:03 chuck it in there and that pat of butter
44:06 you thought was a teaspoon is actually a
44:08 tablespoon and you’re off by 200% on
44:11 your calorie estimation super easy
44:15 happens to me all the time yeah
44:17 oh of me – aye-aye-aye nobody is good at
44:21 doing that kind of stuff hey nobody can
44:24 pour oil out of a bottle
44:26 and be accurate about how much oil in
44:29 the calories they just pour it in within
44:31 50% I don’t think not even dudes
44:34 no not even dudes okay see there’s
44:39 gender equality when it comes to pouring
44:43 oil we all kind of suck we do and that
44:45 that’s where you have to know your own
44:47 limitations of what can be done and why
44:50 it’s worth taking the extra step now I
44:55 personally do not want a long-term
44:59 relationship with food that involves me
45:02 spending time thinking about considering
45:07 planning measuring cup measuring and
45:11 cups measuring in teaspoons I don’t want
45:14 that relationship with my food and
45:17 because of that I keep my life and my
45:21 food relatively simple there’s no key
45:25 dough lasagna with Kito’s noodles that I
45:29 made in my life because I am NOT gonna
45:33 make some Kido I you know Scott Scott
45:38 The Hobbit would had me buy all this
45:40 crazy powders and stuff he’s like I
45:43 totally have made pasta man and he would
45:46 post these pictures I’m like oh I’m in I
45:48 got to give me some of that a low-carb
45:50 pasta who don’t want that nine
45:53 ingredients later you know Amazon
45:55 another forty five bucks out of my
45:57 pocket Oh crazy psyllium husk and
46:01 coconut flowers and everything else I’m
46:04 like measuring a half a teaspoon of this
46:06 two teaspoons of that so at 45 minutes
46:10 later I have no idea what I’m eating
46:12 yeah and it’s just a big hassle so for
46:17 me meats and vegetables maybe a sauce is
46:21 this the impulsive keto part and we got
46:22 in there now you’re thinking okay we
46:28 want you to be cognizant of the
46:31 nutrition that you’re eating is keto
46:34 cookery something that makes sense on a
46:38 daily basis we don’t think so and I’m
46:42 using the Royal we on that I can sign
46:45 off on that all right I agree keto
46:47 cookery
46:48 is kukuri oh I like that
46:53 if you search for my name on the recipe
46:56 board you will not find very many books
46:58 I just I could not care less I don’t
47:02 know what’s going on over there I don’t
47:04 know what people are doing I don’t want
47:07 to be a part of it meat and vegetables
47:09 isn’t that complicated I don’t need a
47:12 recipe to cook meat vegetables oh you
47:15 know I’ve got a nice kung pao sauce I
47:17 got off rule B that I use sometimes I
47:20 mean that’s nice right so that’s chicken
47:22 vegetables in a little sauce that sauce
47:25 has three ingredients by the way no mr.
47:31 wizard stuff going on fetch the
47:33 Lycopodium powder none of that
47:37 yeah my husband over the holidays made
47:40 you made it his his personal quest to
47:43 perfect Kito chocolate chip pecan
47:46 cookies mm-hmm and he did and there are
47:50 quite a number of powders involved yes
47:53 they there has to be right you’re
47:55 building a chemical concoction that’s an
47:58 analogue to something that is a protein
48:01 lattice of course it’s got a bunch of
48:03 stuff in it and I will say that he
48:05 succeeded and those cookies were amazing
48:07 and I gained around four pounds over the
48:09 holidays ain’t mad about doing that hey
48:12 my wife had a keto birthday cake and
48:14 she’s you know for Christmas we made
48:17 keto sausage balls and you know we had
48:20 some cool stuff with the coffee cakes
48:22 made out of the fat head dough and you
48:25 know we do that stuff sometimes but
48:28 sometimes it’s exceptional it is not
48:31 normal I think that’s the only way to
48:33 really make it make it a successful way
48:38 of life the only thing that we see and a
48:41 semi-regular basis that would be
48:43 considered a concoction is the the keto
48:47 mud cakes where it’s like an almond
48:50 flour egg and baking soda and the keto
48:52 pancakes
48:53 it’s like whey powder and sour cream and
48:56 stuff thanks okay it’s really you know
48:59 it’s three or four ingredients and
49:01 they’re they’re relatively simple
49:02 and they’re not really like four steps
49:06 removed from the food yeah yeah because
49:09 at the end at konjac shirataki noodles
49:12 or for our pasta and those are great
49:15 oh yeah the zero like Europop pasta zero
49:18 I mean right right yeah I we buy those
49:20 sometimes sure I’m not hating on that
49:23 stuff I’m just saying for me I have no
49:27 idea what I’m eating what I’m eating
49:29 that yeah so I have to slow down and go
49:33 what how many calories are in these
49:36 whackadoo I can eat noodles what’s in
49:39 the noodles
49:40 what’s the ingredients of the noodles
49:42 how many calories in the food exactly
49:45 right when we go to people’s houses
49:49 they’re like oh we made you a low carb
49:52 meal this will be great I’m like oh here
49:56 we go and I have to go 25 questions
49:59 well well here’s the problem the first
50:04 time that happened to us the someone had
50:07 gone out of their way to buy what they
50:10 thought was the right thing but was in
50:12 fact gluten-free bread so here we are
50:16 thinking that we’re doing keto food and
50:19 it’s local it’s gluten-free bread
50:21 because people don’t know this stuff and
50:23 that’s my point is you cannot be trusted
50:26 because you’ve not been educated on what
50:29 is in your food and that’s the whole
50:32 point of this discussion is figuring out
50:34 what’s in the food if you’re like me you
50:38 want to keep things simple you don’t
50:40 want this complex relationship with food
50:42 and I can’t be bothered to be making
50:45 chocolate chip cookies all the time I
50:47 know I’ll follow somebody you know well
50:49 we’ll let Jen’s husband put up the
50:52 recipe blog and I’ll follow it once a
50:54 year when I’m trying to impress the wife
50:55 but I’m not gonna come up with any of
50:58 that I’m certainly not gonna go out of
50:59 my way to do it on a regular basis I
51:02 want to know what’s in my food yeah I
51:06 just want to know what’s in my food if
51:09 you look at the 30g thread you look at
51:13 my plates you can assess how many
51:15 calories
51:16 how much protein is on that plate with a
51:20 pretty decent level of accuracy why
51:22 because it’s meats and vegetables do I
51:26 use if your grandmother wouldn’t
51:30 recognize it as food you shouldn’t
51:31 either I believe that it can you can
51:35 outsmart yourself by trying to go too
51:38 far into the analog I I don’t think that
51:41 it’s healthy or necessary for your
51:44 relationship with food to go deep into
51:47 that but I also get that there there are
51:50 people who grew up baking and it’s a
51:52 part of their thing and they want to
51:54 bake and they find satisfaction and
51:57 hobby in baking I’m not I’m not here to
51:59 poopoo that I’m just saying for me I I
52:03 don’t want the extra overhead I you know
52:05 I want to run you know lean and mean and
52:08 just get get food done I don’t want to
52:12 track and weigh and measure and do all
52:14 that stuff it’s too much for me I’m lazy
52:17 honestly I I haven’t weighed or measured
52:21 except for a couple days in the past
52:23 year so I’m wicked it’s my hope that I
52:29 can educate folks to a very simple way
52:32 of approaching the ketogenic diet I love
52:37 this simple way this is though this is
52:39 the one true path this is the way
52:42 measuring your meat is generally done in
52:46 ounces 5 ounces is about 30 grams of
52:52 protein you know we say 4 to 6 but you
52:54 know it’s really probably closer to 5
52:56 and most steak and pork and chicken and
53:00 stuff ok 5 is yeah if you were to take a
53:05 whole bunch of those keto foods and lay
53:09 them out in 5 ounce portions it would be
53:11 about the size of the palm of your hand
53:14 what if I got big hands okay well you
53:20 now have a rounding error and whatever
53:23 because it’s ok to go over I’m protein a
53:26 little bit we just don’t want to go
53:28 under
53:29 so Trump would have to kind of be
53:32 careful that he didn’t get too little
53:34 pretty
53:35 oh is this a ham-handed joke here what
53:38 goes on with you yeah last week with the
53:42 f-bombs now the Trump jokes wait there
53:46 is wrong with you let’s say it’s the
53:48 coffee I’m high on caffeine this is this
53:51 is an unacceptable level of discourse
53:53 for a nutrition bar okay okay wrap it
53:57 wrap it back so ain’t hand-sized piece
53:59 of proteins yes so here we are with a
54:03 piece of protein about the size of the
54:07 palm of your hand that’s gonna be about
54:10 250 300 calories depending on the fat
54:12 content and if it’s something with a lot
54:15 of fat content it’s gonna be potentially
54:19 quite a bit more okay then you slap on
54:23 some veggies about two cups of veggies
54:27 if you stick to green and leafy veggies
54:32 then it doesn’t matter there’s nothing
54:35 to track you don’t care because it’s
54:37 impossible for you to eat enough green
54:39 and leafy veggies to make a difference
54:41 what if I want four cups
54:43 go ahead cool I don’t care it’s not
54:47 gonna it’s not gonna hurt your
54:48 weight-loss to eat four cups of salad
54:50 instead of 2 or 4 cups of zucchini
54:53 instead of 2 excellent now if you start
54:57 wrapping them in 1 2 3 breading with
55:00 Parmesan cheese and then deep frying
55:02 them in avocado oil and don’t forget
55:05 wrapped in bacon and then wrapped in
55:08 bacon and covered in cheese sauce yeah
55:10 now we have a problem yeah my problem is
55:18 I haven’t had lunch yet
55:19 yes so this see this is where
55:24 measurement can keep you on the straight
55:28 and narrow if you start going down that
55:29 road you are making a pact that you are
55:33 going to constrain your behavior
55:36 okay so I could have some cheese sauce
55:39 but I gotta go track it you got to have
55:42 a sense of what you’re getting into
55:43 you want some smoked gouda go ahead yeah
55:47 you need to have a sense of how much
55:50 smoked gouda you put on your little
55:51 plate
55:53 my wife is particularly a fan of having
55:56 cheddar cheese on her broccoli oh yeah
55:59 so I take my sodium citrate and make a
56:02 little broccoli cheese sauce cut it with
56:04 some chicken stock mmm drizzle it over
56:08 there yeah now you’re talking she gets a
56:12 hundred calories or their bounce of
56:15 cheese sauce
56:17 why because I know how much cheese is a
56:19 hundred calories and that’s all that
56:22 goes into the concoction like a couple
56:24 tablespoons yeah it’s a it’s a hunk
56:27 about yay big I can see you’re waving
56:31 their hands I gotcha
56:32 all right okay with that it and that’s
56:37 that’s how I roll because I’ve got my
56:40 rules of thumb right I I know the things
56:43 that I use have an energy content of
56:46 about X for a given volume or a given
56:49 weight or measure that I can eyeball
56:50 okay so that that’s as far into that
56:54 world as I go well I you know my husband
57:00 he gets he’s really enthusiastic about
57:03 keto and and he’s really enthusiastic
57:05 about cooking so I got to keep an eye on
57:06 him sure and I again I’m not here to say
57:11 that you can’t do a nutrient-dense
57:14 healthy version of keto and dabble in
57:17 those things but I’m telling you down
57:22 that path leads temptation and much
57:26 consternation so yeah it really needs to
57:32 be exceptional and not the norm but we
57:37 are not advocating we’re advocating a
57:39 diet a nutritional model for life this
57:42 is not a crash diet this is not a get
57:46 ready for the Jamaica trip
57:49 alright this is not a way to crash into
57:52 that tiny bikini that you want to wear
57:54 in Hawaii how did you know this is a
57:59 this is a nutritional model that allows
58:03 you to align your food intake with your
58:06 body’s natural ability to manage its
58:10 adipose tissue levels it’s the energy
58:13 storage to a healthy level of somewhere
58:16 between six and twelve percent for dudes
58:18 and somewhere between you know eighteen
58:23 and twenty two for women yeah if you do
58:27 this your body will take care of the
58:30 rest so long as you’re in the ballpark
58:35 I like the ballpark here’s where two
58:39 screens I like the meat like a little
58:43 bit of cheese sauce okay these are these
58:48 are reasonable things right I think so
58:51 now I want to acknowledge that there are
58:54 people who are at this table who are
58:57 looking for more than just weight loss
59:00 if you have a metabolic disease if you
59:04 are in search of reclaiming health that
59:08 was lost due to choices made in the past
59:12 especially something like diabetes hmm
59:17 this advice may not be enough for you if
59:23 you are someone struggling with an
59:24 eating disorder an unhealthy
59:26 relationship with food an inability to
59:29 constrain your portions despite your
59:31 best intentions this conversation
59:35 probably isn’t for you which is one of
59:40 the reasons why the macro calculator is
59:42 hosted on impulsive keto calm the the
59:46 the very website that I created to
59:49 advocate a no macros model of ketosis
59:52 is the website I used to promote the
59:55 macro calculator I do think when I was
59:59 first starting hito that I
60:02 I think I would have trusted myself to
60:04 regulate my my intake in a way that was
60:07 healthy for me you know I really wanted
60:09 to to track everything and as you said
60:12 I’m kind of a gadget nerd but it really
60:16 helped me you know get a handle on
60:18 things and then later on I discovered
60:20 impulsive Kido and I was able to let go
60:22 of the handle but only because I knew
60:24 that and I know that I can take that up
60:28 and really crack down if I need to again
60:30 in marketing terms macros are an
60:33 engagement tool they get them in the
60:35 door we’re using macros as a way of
60:39 introducing a simple model for managing
60:44 your nutrition and macros are pretty
60:45 simple they really aren’t that hard
60:48 you’ve got calories protein and fat it’s
60:52 easy enough right
60:53 it seems like it but just figuring that
60:56 out you know you have to have an app
60:58 right well when you’re starting from
61:00 zero there’s a lot to learn just to get
61:03 to that point
61:04 yeah that’s why Weight Watchers did so
61:07 well back before people had smartphones
61:09 cuz you just had to look at the points
61:11 oh deal-a-meal was one of the
61:13 best-selling diet aids on the planet for
61:17 a very long time because it was macro
61:20 cards nice same as weight watchers
61:24 points only even more simplified there
61:27 were pictures of things and you ate the
61:30 chicken and you got out a card number
61:32 two and that was part that was your part
61:35 of your allotment for the day well thank
61:38 God we have My Fitness Pal and
61:39 chronometer and lose it in all this
61:40 stuff now it is amazing how much
61:43 nutritional information is available at
61:45 your fingertips right on your phone this
61:46 chronometer is a great app it really is
61:49 the insight that it gives you is really
61:52 impressive you can mean so much out of
61:55 it as far as your nutrient content loose
61:58 it has quite a bit of insight as well
62:01 the thing that I like about chronometer
62:03 is the it doesn’t have entries for a lot
62:07 of like go out to eat food it’s focused
62:12 mostly on USDA entries okay but that
62:15 also means that it has all the
62:17 laboratory analysis where they put it in
62:19 the spectrogram and go all right there’s
62:21 five and a half grams of manganese in
62:24 this food pool which is stuff that you
62:28 don’t get from MFE I mean Fe doesn’t
62:30 even have the right amount of protein
62:31 half the time yeah and you know it’s
62:34 neat to be able to go into a restaurant
62:36 and you know pull up mfp and you know
62:38 get some information but then like you
62:40 read the information half the time I
62:42 don’t believe it anyway
62:43 no that’s the problem is is it better to
62:45 have no information or to have
62:47 untrustworthy information Karen and I
62:51 when we first started getting into this
62:54 world we dug deep into potassium because
62:57 we were trying to understand why people
62:59 were saying most folks needed about
63:02 forty seven hundred milligrams of
63:04 potassium a day okay so we start looking
63:07 at mfp logs of our users are like um
63:12 most people are getting about 800 to a
63:16 thousand milligrams of potassium every
63:18 day what is going on doesn’t seem like a
63:22 lot no well how could we be why aren’t
63:25 we all sick and dead is really the
63:27 question me if we’re running on an 80%
63:30 deficit we should all be dead right well
63:33 then you start looking into it and you
63:35 go oh well there’s 250 milligrams of
63:39 potassium and a cup of coffee oh except
63:42 for there’s not in the mfp entry because
63:45 nobody bothered to populate that but
63:47 it’s there in chronometer interesting
63:51 and that’s how we kind of ended up with
63:53 the chronometer being our advocated tool
63:57 for tracking is because we want to be
64:01 able to assess people’s electrolytes and
64:03 their macros as accurately as possible
64:06 and we’d rather know that we’re missing
64:08 information than to be given bad
64:10 information and make bad choices I mean
64:13 it had we trusted mfp we could be
64:16 advocating a level of potassium
64:18 supplementation that could be profoundly
64:20 dangerous well I really got a try
64:23 chronometer yeah I’m you know they all
64:27 have their limitations right here
64:28 everything’s kind of
64:30 MFE is great for connectivity you know
64:32 connects the Nike fit the Fitbit all
64:34 those great things mm-hmm it certainly
64:36 has an entry for just about everything
64:39 I don’t know chronometer will do they do
64:44 support Fitbit now yep
64:46 lose it is another tool people talk
64:48 about a lot I like lose it as well it’s
64:51 certainly very pretty to look at it’s
64:53 easy to use and and key stuff in a
64:56 weaker cheetah try it and see which one
64:59 works best for you it really doesn’t
65:02 matter so long as you’re in the ballpark
65:05 and that’s the goal I like it it’s a
65:08 good ballpark so Jennifer since we’re
65:13 talking about measurement less than two
65:17 minutes on this topic I don’t want to
65:18 get in the rat hole yeah
65:21 glucose and ketone measurement cool I
65:25 love this topic as a reminder if you are
65:29 not diabetic there’s no reason for you
65:32 to measure your blood glucose I guess
65:36 I think it’s cool though yes if you are
65:40 a data nerd if you are a customer of
65:43 smart pants comm uh-huh feel free to
65:47 measure your glucose all you want to you
65:50 get it nerd you know they’re adding it
65:52 they’re working on adding it to like the
65:55 Apple watch so it’ll just be part of you
65:57 know the standard consumer item and
65:59 everybody will have access it there is
66:02 no reason for your weight loss journey
66:05 to have an insight into glucose the
66:09 people advocating this are also selling
66:11 you glucose strips keep that in mind
66:15 when someone tells you that something is
66:17 required understand the profit chain
66:21 behind that recommendation all right
66:26 I’ll give you that but this one family
66:28 people that are advocating you know
66:29 looking at your glucose and stuff like
66:31 that you know if you had it as part of
66:34 your watch I think that would help
66:36 identify people who are pre-diabetic a
66:38 lot sooner than they then they find out
66:41 later as the great doctor
66:43 Ted diamond has said many times start
66:46 walking towards a wall if your belly
66:48 hits before your nose your insulin
66:53 resistance not a woman it’s true other
66:57 things all right no okay the the
67:03 inferior sex strikes again
67:05 causing a simple measurement become way
67:09 more complicated is it is more
67:11 complicated all right yes thank you
67:14 thank you for destroying my simplified
67:17 picture that’s usually Karen’s job I saw
67:21 I appreciate you stepping up and filling
67:22 in for her well hopefully she’ll be back
67:24 soon because if you know TT mu it’s much
67:28 better works out in the same vein
67:31 measuring your ketones is not necessary
67:34 large amounts of ketones do not improve
67:38 weight loss period anyone who makes that
67:43 claim is not only a liar but would not
67:47 be willing to do so on behalf of the
67:49 company that they represent and in fact
67:54 the myth the many companies who make
67:57 those claims do not do so in writing and
68:00 in fact often refute them in writing
68:03 should I actually got a free canister of
68:07 exogenous ketones for as a bribe to
68:12 leave a good Amazon review yeah you know
68:15 I’ve tried them and you know you get a
68:17 little buzz but that’s it I don’t get it
68:19 well its energy in a Canada of course it
68:23 gives you a buzz yeah help you lose
68:25 weight
68:26 well no but pursuant to our long
68:30 conversation about calories in calories
68:32 out guess what ketones are energy and
68:36 they have a calorie count they are not
68:38 free they’re not blow zero calorie
68:41 they’re actually quite a few calories
68:44 makes sense why don’t they have a
68:46 nutrition label um some do okay but many
68:52 of them and you know it’s a nutritional
68:55 supplement it’s not a food
68:57 so the contents do not have to be the
69:01 things that they have to include are
69:04 regulated in different ways depending on
69:06 how you position your product to the FDA
69:09 and labeling Association so some some
69:13 you’ll see do have a nutritional content
69:15 and they’ll be 90 to 120 calories for a
69:18 single dose of you know enough ketones
69:20 to be half a mil amol that’s a lot well
69:24 yeah just like a tablespoon of MCT oil
69:27 will give you about 90 calories right
69:31 also a lot yeah it’s not nothing it’s
69:34 not free there’s no free lunch if you
69:36 want energy in the form of ketones it
69:39 comes in with a calorie content which is
69:41 unfavorable for weight loss this is why
69:44 we lose our mind when people start
69:46 talking about bulletproof coffee in the
69:49 context of weight loss because all
69:52 you’re doing is adding coconut based
69:54 energy to a beverage that has no
69:57 nutritional content beyond its energy
70:00 content that’s calories it can be used
70:03 for nutrition gut health you could be
70:07 displacing that with vegetables with
70:10 protein so many things it would be much
70:13 better choices I was arguing with the
70:16 guy about that on our forum actually and
70:19 he’s like well I like my you know it’s a
70:21 meal replacement I’m say well okay but
70:23 as an optimal choice if you’re talking
70:26 about like okay you choose that as a
70:28 meal replacement fine but as an optimal
70:29 choice it’s better to use that meal for
70:35 eating something that actually has you
70:37 know micronutrients and and other
70:39 protein and other values that’s right
70:42 put put that meal replacement in the
70:43 chronometer and it’s a bunch of goose
70:46 eggs yeah because all it is is energy
70:49 there’s no vitamins or minerals or
70:52 micronutrients in there it’s just energy
70:55 in the form of grease so if you have a
71:00 choice you know am I gonna sit down to a
71:02 breakfast of you know omelet and
71:04 mushrooms and spinach and bacon yeah
71:09 sure absolutely
71:13 but not this guy this guy like there’s a
71:15 400 calorie coffee okay as long as he’s
71:18 tracking his overall calorie intake
71:20 that’s that’s his choice to eat a sub
71:23 optimal nutrition I think it’d be logged
71:26 as nutrition for a week and compared
71:29 that to a week without the quote unquote
71:32 meal replacement he would realize he’s
71:35 made a bad decision
71:37 hi I’m great so the glucose meter thing
71:41 though
71:42 I agree the ketone meter I don’t see the
71:45 point that never have I guess you know
71:48 it might be interesting I might get one
71:49 at some point just cuz you know data
71:50 nerds might be fun to play with but the
71:53 glucose meter for me as a former former
71:56 current I don’t know diabetic by the way
72:00 Ben I don’t know if I told you my last
72:01 day want to see was 4.6 nice yeah so I
72:06 got a continuous glucose meter a Libra
72:09 freestyle Libra by Abbott it is just
72:12 just now become available to people in
72:15 the united states that aren’t type 1
72:17 diabetics so it wasn’t that much money
72:19 my insurance covered it and it’s it’s
72:24 been a very interesting i’ve noticed you
72:26 know some really large impacts from
72:28 behaviors that i hadn’t realized
72:32 particularly i wanted to share this with
72:34 with our viewing audience taking a 10 15
72:40 minute walk after dinner has a huge
72:44 impact on postprandial glucose levels
72:47 for hours and hours afterwards huge okay
72:56 yeah to what conclusion ever does that
73:00 matter for people that aren’t obsessing
73:03 over their a1c it might I have to think
73:08 that that reflects some sort of
73:10 fundamental thing about what’s going on
73:11 with your digestion your body’s not
73:12 using it are you eight and if you don’t
73:15 move after dinner your body’s digesting
73:19 and putting this energy into your system
73:21 and it’s just sitting there not being
73:24 for hours and hours I got to think some
73:26 of that’s going to be packed away and
73:27 stored as fat well that is the the
73:32 biology of this and I I think that’s
73:34 where we get into at so let’s call this
73:38 a tease for a much longer show which is
73:42 dynamics of glucose in someone who is a
73:48 recovering insulin resistant person okay
73:51 I the the answer to your question is
73:55 very complex and it requires a
73:58 sophisticated understanding of the
74:00 dynamics of how your body works and
74:03 manages it’s not as simple as anyone
74:08 there are no rules of thumb we have to
74:11 look at area under the curve based on
74:14 the load of the glucose it’s just it is
74:19 a complex topic cool well I just it’s
74:24 been one of the most startling things to
74:26 me to see that this is one kind of
74:29 trivial behavior you know just getting
74:31 off my butt after dinner it has a
74:35 surprisingly to me surprisingly large
74:37 impact right and the the reason that I
74:40 don’t want to get into this is because
74:42 we cannot just say that’s a favorable
74:46 impact or an unfavorable impact it’s not
74:48 that simple there’s it it requires a
74:51 deeper conversation cool well I look
74:55 forward to that up okay final
74:58 measurement thing the P strips oh there
75:03 is a product called ketosis and this has
75:07 been popularized by a specific Facebook
75:10 group as its Mac the fat oh yeah those
75:13 people yeah always paid coaching and
75:17 keto strips and all that stuff
75:18 yeah paid coaches are jerks don’t trust
75:20 them I’ve been saying that for years
75:24 but I again follow the profit chain who
75:28 who’s advocating P strips the guys
75:30 selling you the branded Chinese pee
75:32 strips uh-huh what do they measure
75:36 they measure excess ketones being leaked
75:40 out by your kidneys in your urine they
75:44 work until they don’t okay a negative on
75:50 the keys ketone pee stick is a
75:55 inconclusive negative however a positive
75:59 is a conclusive positive if you plan I
76:04 don’t get it if you pee on the stick and
76:07 it turns purple you are without a doubt
76:11 100% in ketosis oh cool if you pee on
76:16 the stick and it stays tan we cannot
76:21 prove the negative we do not know if you
76:24 are in ketosis or not it is result we
76:29 don’t even care if you are in ketosis
76:32 well let’s go so far as to say we do
76:35 care but okay it’s not a reasonable
76:38 measurement in the first two weeks of
76:42 becoming kita you will leak ketones in
76:48 your urine your kidneys aren’t used to
76:51 seeing ketones and they don’t know what
76:52 to do with them and your liver will be
76:53 freaking out and making too many of them
76:55 and you will have a lot of ketones in
76:58 your urine
76:59 almost every one so they work great for
77:03 newbies okay okay after a period of time
77:08 your kidneys will adapt to the new
77:11 environment your liver will settle down
77:14 your insulin resistance will come in
77:16 line and you will not have ketones in
77:21 your urine
77:22 you’re literally peeing away energy
77:24 literally your body is if nothing
77:28 efficient it is not going to allow
77:32 energy to be leaked out for a long
77:34 period of time it is going to conserve
77:36 that energy and it does do so your pee
77:40 strips will then stop working
77:42 well you might would my wallets
77:45 efficient Ben and I don’t think that I
77:48 even you know I considered these piece
77:49 tips when I
77:50 started you know but I reasoned that if
77:53 I am strictly so and I am not eating
77:57 carbs and I’m keeping my my carbs to
77:59 under 20 grams a day then either I’m
78:02 gonna die or I’m gonna be in ketosis
78:04 right show me an accurate food log a
78:08 truly accurate one and I will tell you
78:11 if you are in ketosis okay
78:14 almost a hundred percent how are the pay
78:19 strips are kind of a reassurance yeah
78:23 they they are a cheap insurance B
78:26 because those P strips only cost about
78:27 ten bucks
78:28 alright so for ten bucks for the first
78:31 few weeks you can pee on something that
78:34 turns purple that lets you know you’re
78:35 doing it right cool is that worth 10
78:38 bucks first some people maybe go I’m not
78:42 here to tell you you’re wasting your
78:44 money but I I am here to tell you that
78:48 after the first two weeks I want to hear
78:50 that’s fair and that that’s where I get
78:56 disheartened that these things are being
78:59 advocated for any use other than the
79:02 ranked stinking newbie who has no idea
79:05 whether or not they’ve successfully
79:07 restricted carbohydrate they are good
79:10 for that okay all right I think as a
79:14 former newbie that you know when I had
79:18 the food scale and I was very confident
79:20 in my food blogging abilities that I
79:23 figured twenty grams of carbs or less
79:26 that that was as good as actually
79:29 measuring ketones or better I think
79:33 better better because I didn’t have to
79:35 spend money ha I have no problem with
79:39 data especially cheap data and for me
79:42 ten bucks on something like that is
79:44 that’s relatively cheap acquisition
79:47 these blood ketone strips that what
79:51 Jimmy is selling emojos selling them you
79:55 know there’s a few other groups that are
79:57 big-time advocating these things yeah I
80:00 looked into it they’re like a dollar
80:04 strip somewhere between 1 and 250 is
80:07 strip protest just to evaluate whether
80:12 or not you’re successfully restricting
80:14 carbohydrate the level doesn’t matter
80:17 keep that in mind it doesn’t the
80:19 dynamics of ketones going up and down
80:21 have very little to do with the food
80:24 that you eat and have a lot more to do
80:26 with the health of your metabolism as
80:29 contrasted against the current activity
80:31 and nutritional schedule you’re on I can
80:37 make your ketones go up and down way
80:39 more by messing around with when and
80:42 what you eat then I can with exogenous
80:45 ketones even so unless you understand
80:49 all those dynamics why would you think
80:52 that you’re gonna gain any insight by
80:54 measuring your blood I listen to Jimmy
80:58 where’s podcast and that’s it that’s all
81:01 I got I am aggressively against
81:05 measuring blood ketones unless you have
81:08 a medical condition warranting high
81:10 levels of ketones like epilepsy or other
81:13 brain disorders like TBI we know high
81:16 levels of ketones make a difference if
81:18 you’re managing epilepsy with the
81:21 ketogenic diet you want your ketones to
81:24 be over to all the time ok otherwise if
81:29 that’s not you then there’s even as a
81:33 diabetic there’s no value in you having
81:36 high levels of ketones it doesn’t mean
81:38 anything and doesn’t give us insight
81:41 into what’s going on to your metabolism
81:43 well for some diabetics right they got
81:46 to worry about actually going into
81:48 ketoacidosis if their ketones are like
81:50 crazy crazy high then a type 1 diabetics
81:56 that are insufficiently dosing their
81:58 insulin okay but that you know that’s a
82:03 whole different medical condition then
82:05 you don’t you can that’s actually those
82:07 pee strips that’s actually what those
82:09 pee strips for for oh and by the way we
82:12 before you go into ketoacidosis
82:14 you also have blood sugars of about 3 on
82:16 are you okay do you really need the
82:21 dollar-fifty measurement strip to know
82:24 that you have 300 blood sugar and you
82:26 haven’t given yourself enough insulin as
82:27 type 1 and I bet I would hope that let’s
82:31 hope that several levels of accident
82:34 would need to occur before that would
82:36 occur as a type 2 diabetic it’s virtual
82:39 impossibility unless you’re you know in
82:43 beta cell failure which kind of makes
82:45 you not a type 2 diabetic that’s my
82:49 that’s my point with this is it this
82:51 stuff gets super complicated super fast
82:53 and for 95% of people listening has no
82:57 relevance it will not make you lose
83:00 weight any faster please do not get
83:02 tempted to spend a whole bunch of money
83:05 on gizmos you have to do is install a
83:09 free app on your phone and buy a $15.00
83:12 digital scale with a with a tare button
83:14 and eat meat and veggies and then eat
83:17 mean vegetables it’s that simple I I
83:21 spend almost every coaching call going
83:23 yeah we’re not gonna talk that much
83:25 about the food because it’s meat and
83:26 green and leafy vegetables any other
83:28 questions like that that is a lot of the
83:32 coaching call is talking about
83:34 everything except for the food that you
83:36 eat because the food you eat can be
83:38 explained in 2 minutes on an index card
83:40 awesome that’s the point this is not
83:44 complicated it’s not difficult it can be
83:47 a tool that will assist you in your
83:50 journey especially for compliance but
83:54 for most of this stuff there’s no reason
83:57 to over invest in technology you don’t
83:59 need the Bluetooth scale
84:01 I’m sure sure it’s fancy and it’s
84:04 exciting and it kind of does stuff but
84:06 is that is that the thing well for
84:11 Jennifer maybe it is maybe it is she’s a
84:14 she’s enough of a gizmo gal that the
84:17 gizmo is an engagement tool that keeps
84:20 her focused on her weight loss and
84:22 weight maintenance journey definitely
84:25 does I’m not mad about that I’m not
84:28 buying the smart pants though that’s too
84:30 far
84:30 that’s that maybe too far for me to
84:33 advocate I cannot condone smart pants
84:36 that’s where I draw the line Jennifer
84:39 okay that’s fine maybe for Christmas
84:42 though all right
84:47 so to summarize today’s conversation we
84:51 think that tracking is useful if you do
84:54 not have a pretty good sense of what is
84:56 in your food especially from a calorie
84:59 perspective calorie deficit causes
85:02 weight loss period end of discussion no
85:06 debate on a point I I will not tolerate
85:10 any level of nonsense to the contrary
85:14 because it’s so not how biology works
85:19 eat more fat to lose more fat what’s
85:22 that mean and that’s not how this works
85:24 at all any of this works it’s just that
85:30 simple okay you must restrict calories
85:33 in order to lose weight you can either
85:36 do so through rules of thumb or you can
85:39 do so through accuracy but I encourage
85:42 you to be able to eyeball how much
85:44 cheese has 100 calories and there’s only
85:46 one way to do that that’s the way and
85:49 measure cheese until you figure out how
85:51 big of a chunk it is then once you got
85:54 it you got it
85:54 not a very big chunk people if
85:56 compliance is important for you and self
86:01 accountability helps with your
86:03 compliance Mazel Tov go nuts I think
86:09 it’s fine and it’s fun it may be fun to
86:14 use technology as a gizmo an engagement
86:17 tool smart pants excluded from that but
86:24 as for these other measurements and most
86:26 of this stuff is not necessary you don’t
86:27 need to know your postprandial glucose
86:29 levels none of that means anything those
86:32 that is smoking mirrors for people who
86:35 are trying to explain things that don’t
86:37 need to be explained because it doesn’t
86:39 work that way
86:40 that’s fair but I do like my continual
86:44 glucose meter that gizmo
86:47 is gonna let us do some fun things and
86:49 have some fun conversations okay cool
86:52 it was not necessary for you to lose the
86:54 weight well in truth I’ve lost all the
86:57 weight and then I got the big is mom so
86:59 yeah that’s my point and and yet the
87:02 gizmo still is there this will help me
87:08 you know keep my focus and maintain my
87:11 weight loss for decades to come
87:13 it’s really disappointing to me that
87:15 your body pod is not talking to your
87:18 Fitbit syncing with your scale so that
87:21 you can see on your phone exactly what’s
87:25 going on I don’t know how you get
87:26 through your day without that level of
87:28 insight
87:29 well yeah it’s essential i if I was
87:32 disconnected I just don’t know what
87:33 would happen it’d be weird you lose your
87:35 phone things are gonna go downhill quick
87:38 that’s all I know where we’re gonna have
87:40 to send an ambulance I’ll be lost
87:42 without it
87:45 probably just wander into the kitchen
87:47 and start eating everything in sight
87:49 folks check out chronometer we think
87:54 it’s a pretty good logging tool My
87:56 Fitness Pal is fine I’m excited to try
87:59 economic or I want to track my
88:00 micronutrients and find out where I’m
88:02 deficient in stuff and eat more of the
88:04 other stuff pick up a digital scale if
88:08 you don’t have one there they’re like 12
88:10 bucks at Walmart they’re super cheap Hey
88:12 they don’t think costs nothing make sure
88:14 it’s got a zero button on it cuz you
88:15 hurt your dial not cool that is totally
88:19 cool and super cheap all right Jennifer
88:22 we have spoken to tracking as far as I’m
88:27 willing to for someone who runs a keto
88:30 model that does not involve any tracking
88:33 of any kind and I love impulsive keto I
88:37 love being able to just walk up to my
88:39 plate to have a palm-sized piece protein
88:41 and a bunch of veggies and I’m good to
88:43 go it’s as simple as that and that’s
88:46 that’s me I like things nice and easy
88:50 but don’t feel bad that uh
88:54 do you need to make things more
88:55 complicated to figure things out
88:57 we all have a learning curve right some
89:01 of us some of us have a learning curve
89:03 mm-hmm some of us just buy gizmos to do
89:05 it for us that’s right
89:07 I got a smart everything all right
89:13 Jennifer we’re gonna leave it there all
89:15 right I’ll head upstairs have some lunch
89:18 with my smart Fork and it’s real it’s a
89:25 thing no one in this apartment without
89:27 provider uh-huh and our discussion is
89:29 based on things we’d be done here now
89:30 it’s not a situation that decisions
89:35 about the treatment diagnosis and
89:37 especially the impact of
89:38 always directly prescribing doctor I
89:40 ability during meditation before
89:42 nutritional first or fashion person many
89:45 medications are known incompatible on
89:46 the bastard
89:47 be safe and open Oliver
89:52 you
89:55 [Music]